Troy Smith, James Laurinaitis and the faces of Ohio State football’s Big Ten takeover: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Which former Ohio State football player best exemplifies what it means to be a Buckeye?

That’s what we’ll spend the next week trying to figure out with the help of the Buckeye Talk Subtext subscribers. Over 150 people were considered but only 32 could make the official bracket as Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss some of the greatest players in history.

But this isn’t about just being the best. It’s about telling the story of a program and who we can’t tell that story without.

That continues with our third Elite 8 matchup featuring Troy Smith and James Laurinaitis.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk and sign up to get text messages from experts Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis at 614-350-3315. Get the insider analysis, have your voice heard on the Buckeye Talk podcast and connect with the best Buckeye community out there.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:08.736)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. I’m Stephen Means, that’s Tiffan Kreisnick, and that is Andrew Gillis. We continue on with our Woody Hayes Greatest Buckeye Bracket. Again, this is not necessarily about who the best player is. I think we have to continue to remind ourselves so that this is not about who the best player is. This is about who is the epitome of what it means to be an Ohio State Buckeye. And yes, part of that is being a good player, but all 32 people who made this bracket were good players. In fact, all 150 plus people who got a mention.

to be in this bracket. We’re good football players. This is Ohio state we’re talking about. This is about the epitome of what it means to be a Buckeye based off their accolades, team success, memorable moments, Michigan success or lack of success and overall Buckeye aura. We’ve already talked Archie versus AJ Hawk. We’ve talked Eddie George versus Orlando pace. And now we continue on with another regional championship game today. It’s Troy Smith.

Heisman Trophy winning quarterback. In fact, he’s the last Ohio State football player to win the Heisman Trophy. And James Zoranaitis, who might be the most decorated linebacker in the history of Ohio State when you look at his resume that he is now starting to add to as a coach. Smith was a quarterback here from 2000 through the 2006, who actually has a pretty unique story of how he got here as a Glenville product and how he ended up being the starting quarterback, how he lost the job because of some off.

off the field stuff and how he won the job again, ironically enough, the beginning of winning the job again, Stefan came in the middle of that 2005 Texas game. And then you have James Zorinaitis who showed up here in 2005 was awesome from day one, awesome out the door. And now he’s an awesome assistant coach. But starting with Troy, when you look at accolades and stats,

versus James Loreniz’s accolades and stats. You had a rule the other day where you were like, if you have a husband, you’re probably one in this category. Can that still be applied when the other guy was awesome the entire time he was here versus one guy who had one giant crazy year and then two okay years?

Stefan Krajisnik (02:21.337)

Yeah, this is I was excited to have this conversation because of that that reasoning you go through Troy Smith’s accolades and trophies Again Wikipedia does a pretty good job with this of highlights and awards every single award Listed and every single accolade listed for Troy Smith has in parentheses next to it 2006 every single one of them except for the 2002 national championship, which he obviously didn’t play a major part in so

It’s interesting because then you go over to James Laurinaitis and he’s a three time All Big Ten selection, twice a consensus All-American. 2007 he was a unanimous All-American, two time Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year, two time Jack Lambert Trophy. In 2006 he won the Bronco Nagurski Trophy, in 2007 the Buccus Award. He has collected every award that there basically is and did it over a few years where it-

You can have a discussion more so than just this guy won the Heisman it outweighs anything. I think one thing that’s important where sure James Lauren ice then I went to Heisman there’s not a lot of linebackers who have won Heisman not a ton of defensive players who have won Heisman trophies. He won the Buccus award in 2007 he’s him and Katz and we’re the only Ohio State players who ever win that award. Like that that’s notable that’s also what you know Buccus was maybe the best big or the best.

Lie back or big-time history so like getting an award named after him is already a big thing in it in and of itself but To get that honor when you look at Ohio State history I’m not gonna say it’s it’s tougher to do that than to win a Heisman But think about all the great linebackers that have come through Ohio State numerous linebackers who have been in this 32-man bracket To win that award is not something that happens a whole ton at Ohio State So I think that kind of maybe puts into perspective Just how good James Lauren Itis was

and just how good he was over the course of his entire career. mean, you think about as a freshman, him stepping into that Michigan game, as a Bobby Carpenter gets hurt and then everything that came the following three years. mean, his stats are hilarious to look at because you go through 115 tackles as a sophomore. You’re like, damn, that’s pretty good. 121 tackles as a junior. You’re like, damn, that’s pretty good. 130 tackles as a senior. You’re like,

Stefan Krajisnik (04:41.659)

Alright dude, like you keep one-upping what’s already impressive on its own so...

I can I can go either way and and I understand you know the magnitude of a season like what Troy Smith had in his Heisman season being enough to kind of say his accolades are better but James Lornitis when you look at the totality of his career like it’s about as close as you can get to a Heisman winner if you’re not already a Heisman winner right like I’m not gonna say Troy Smith’s 2006 season was you know Joe Burrow 2019 because Troy had

Stephen Means (05:08.896)

Mm-hmm.

Stefan Krajisnik (05:15.939)

I think shown more in other years and Joe Burrow had shown in other years.

But there is one big season that stands out. And if you’re someone who kind of looks at the totality more in terms of accolades and stats, I think you can make a case for James Laurinaitis here.

Stephen Means (05:33.344)

He’s also the first player to win a Nagurski Award. And then Chase Young joined him in 2019 winning that award.

And you know what, Andrew, I want to use LSU. Not Joe Burrow, LSU. Because Troy Smith technically was Joe Burrow in 2006. His differential Heisman Trophy voting was the widest margin until Joe Burrow in 2019. So he legitimately was Joe Burrow for what that era was. In terms of play, obviously the storyline of being an Ohio guy who had to go elsewhere to get on the field, that’s a little bit different. But the concept of just how dominant

of a year he had for what football was in 2006 and how he was viewed amongst Heisman voters, it’s very similar. He had 2,540 of the votes, 801 of the first place votes.

The next closest first place votes getter was Darren McFadden at Arkansas. had 45 first place votes and he had 878 total votes. Over 2000 more votes for Troy Smith than the next best guy in the highest majority voting in 2006. I want to use LSU Andrew because it’s a, it’s actually an interesting conversation of would you rather be Ohio state or LSU over the past 10 years where

LSU I think has the highest peak.

Stephen Means (07:00.084)

Where, let’s just play off error. Let’s just do the college football playoff error. Would you rather be Ohio, the 14 college football playoff error? Would you rather have had Ohio State or LSU where LSU had the highest peak, clearly the highest peak, what they were in 2019. But Ohio State was that every year, whether they actually won it or not. So this idea of would you rather be the guy who’s a sustained success, constantly in the race, every year you have at bats to win a national title.

Or would you rather be the team who you don’t get at bats every year, but when you finally do get it that bad, you hit a grand slam.

Andrew Gillis (07:39.33)

Well, mean, in that scenario, I think you take LSU and the four like if you’re talking about a 14 playoff like that specific well.

Andrew Gillis (07:50.816)

Now that I think about it, no, it’s actually probably Ohio State. Because I was originally, I was like originally thinking like the last like five years, but no, I think it’s I think it’s Ohio State because they both won championships and 14 playoff era. And it’s like, I don’t care if you know, I frankly don’t care that LSU 2019 team might have been better than Ohio State 2014. Who cares? Rings Ernie, like you won. Like that’s that’s the point of this whole thing. So

then it comes down to, okay, so if you both have a ring, what’s next? And I think at that point you take sustained success. So yeah, I think it’s Ohio State. Like I think if you were to say, you know, like if you were to push it from like 2016 to 2020 and that five year reign, like obviously you take LSU because LSU had some bad years in there, but they also won a title. So when you have the title to compare to, then you obviously take

the long-term success and I don’t really care that your highest of highs might have been better because frankly, the highest of highs, once you reach it, I don’t care how high you get. It’s like, you climb a mountain, I don’t care that somebody else climbed Everest on the same day. I climbed that mountain and guess what? I won. So yeah, that’s the way that I would.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:11.172)

It’s like do 2024 Ohio State fans feel much different than 2019 LSU fans? I mean sure LSU maybe has a few extra bragging rights. You also got your coach fired like a year later. it is what it’s fast. What? Yeah, I mean it is. is fascinating. Both Ohio State and LSU their last three head coaches have won a national title and Trussell Meyer and Ryan Day have done it in a lot different way than.

Stephen Means (09:22.858)

What if that’s the cost though? That’s the cost of doing business.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:37.187)

Saban less miles and at Orgeron did it because of the highs and lows and obviously there’s some pressure on Brian Kelly to be the next one to do that but it is it is funny to look at kind of the two programs and what they’ve accomplished and how they’ve accomplished it.

Stephen Means (09:52.672)

So I mean, let’s apply that here because Troy Smith has, I think, the highest of high. Yeah, that 2006 season, I mean, if we did a top 10 individual seasons in Ohio State football history, that’s closer to one than it is the 10. And you might be able to make a strong case that it is 10. But it’s also not surrounded by...

It sticks out like a sore thumb. His other years, 2003, obviously he’s more of a backup role. First of all, he shows up here with Justin Zwick. He’s not even supposed to be the future quarterback. Justin Zwick is the five star quarterback in that class. He’s supposed to be.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:32.955)

Troy was the last player to sign in that class, right? In that 2002 class?

Stephen Means (10:37.392)

Yes. Yeah. So this is like, oh, they there’s a Glenville kid. I’m going to take a chance on him. I don’t even know if he’s going to play quarterback the entire time he’s here, but we’ll take a chance on that kid. Justin’s wick is supposed to be the future. He’s the first ever five star quarterback. The Ohio state program had ever signed in the modern era because obviously they didn’t have stars and stuff before 2000. So he’s the first five star quarterback of that era. He’s supposed to be the starting quarterback here. And then in 2004, Troy Smith starts showing stuff.

2005, he takes over the job and he has 2,200 yards, 16 touchdowns and four interceptions. And he adds alongside of that, a couple of, some rushing yards as well. And then in 2000.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:16.859)

11 rushing to Ashanza 2005.

Stephen Means (11:19.744)

Thank you. My, my, you know, technology loads slow sometimes when you’re taking notes. But then 2006 is when it really takes off and he has that really important year that we wouldn’t size the trophy. He sets Ohio state’s record for most passing touchdowns in a season with 30, which stood until JT Barrett broke it in 2014. And then I think in 2017 he had 35, but that stood for almost a decade. He also had 2,500 yards and only six interceptions that year. So I mean, I don’t know, man. He

He’s the first quarterback of the Jim Trestle era where you go, I wonder what that guy would look like in Ryan Day’s offense. Oh, we know what he would look like in Ryan Day’s offense. He wore number seven and was here from 2020 to 2022. And he’s from California and his name is CJ Stroud. But it’s a buildup to get to that final year. Meanwhile, James Laurinaitis, three time All-American, once a unanimous All-American in 2007.

And he was a consensus All-American in 2006 and 2008. And as you mentioned, Stefan, he has all these awards.

Which career would you rather have? From a statistical and a accolade standpoint, James Lornar, we talked about how big of a deal it was in Ohio State had two guys with a hundred tackles this year. James Lornar is like, yeah, I just had a hundred tackles every year. So whoop de doo, Cody Simon and Sonny Styles. Good for you. I do that all the time. That’s just normal. Which career from an accolades and stats standpoint, Stefan would you rather have?

Stefan Krajisnik (12:51.702)

I mean, it’s tough.

I’d probably say Troy Smith still because of the positional value and being the quarterback who wins the Heisman and has that level of success and gets a team to the National Championship game. I’d probably go that route, but I totally could see why you would pick James Lauren Isis side. I think just me personally, I’d rather just be a sick quarterback. I’m just going to be honest.

Think that’s awesome. I love linebackers as no disrespect to linebackers being a Heisman Trophy winning quarterback is pretty sick and like the 2005 SEA was season was not too shabby

Stephen Means (13:34.144)

For the record, this is a man who also loves Arvel Reese saying this. remember that. He’s not team sand, he’s team Reese. Which career would you rather have?

Stefan Krajisnik (13:40.911)

Listen, I’ve got a big heart, all right? I’ve got a big heart.

Andrew Gillis (13:49.688)

think in terms of stats and accolades, think it’s still Troy Smith. You know, this gets interesting if like James Laurinaitis was a few years earlier and won a national championship and was like a starting linebacker on the title team. And it’s like, all right, would you rather be a Heisman Trophy winning quarterback at Ohio State and play in a national championship game or an all-big 10 linebacker and win it? Because technically Troy Smith won a national championship.

He was just a redshirt in 2002.

Stephen Means (14:21.994)

And red shirt back then that you legitimately did not play at all. No, you didn’t even get core games back then.

Andrew Gillis (14:25.93)

Yeah, red shirt. Yeah. Yeah. Red shirt back then was, yeah, it’s Johnny clipboard holder at that point. There was no four games or whatever. You step onto the field, you burn it. So I don’t really think we should characterize it that way. But I still take Troy because like that season was just so magical for so many different reasons. You know.

you will be able to point to a lot of different moments in that 06 season. And, you know, like I think of the Michigan game and the Michigan game in 05 that they played, like, you know, they had the just an unbelievable season in both those years. Like Stephane said, in 06, you have the biggest game maybe ever or the most hyped up game against Michigan, maybe ever.

and you’re the quarterback on a Heisman trophy winning season and you beat Michigan 42 to 39. I don’t know. It’s look, it’s close because Lauren Ida has definitely had like more sustained excellence. He was a two time defensive big 10 player of the year, unanimous all American, consensus all American, three year all American, three year all big 10. Like I get the argument, but nobody watches, you know, speeches for the Nagurski trophy.

Everybody tunes in every year to see who wins the Heisman Trophy and they watch the guy give the speech. That’s why I’m taking the Heisman Trophy.

Stephen Means (15:59.2)

because of the speech.

Andrew Gillis (16:01.196)

That’s exactly right. It’s only reason.

Stephen Means (16:05.341)

You said it, not me.

Stephen Means (16:09.568)

To be fair, James Lornau just played it back to back national championship games.

So I don’t know who I’ll take and I don’t have to answer the question because I’m that I’m the question asker not the question answerer. So and I don’t want to do it. I want I want to see what our Texas thinks. 614-350-3315 team success Troy Smith 41 and 925 and seven in the Big Ten during his time as an Ohio State football player where he could actually play. I did not include the stats in the season of 2002 for him at all because again red shirt back then meant you did not exist for 12 months.

versus nowadays when Julian Sane can play in three games and we can actually count the stats and he actually contribute past his practice. Got to the fiesta bowl from 2003 to 2005. State was living in the fiesta bowl for a while there. Like living in the fiesta bowl to the point that I think if you were born in 1999 and you didn’t know the history of college football, you would think they had like an automatic bid to the fiesta bowl. That’s just.

they won the national championship in the fiesta ball in 2002. So now they’re just going to go to the fiesta ball every single year.

Andrew Gillis (17:18.19)

You view the Fiesta Bowl like people who are of a certain age view the Rose Bowl. Because you’re like, hey, we go there every year. It’s cool when we go to the Fiesta Bowl. It means we’re doing good things.

Stephen Means (17:23.616)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:28.089)

And if you were born in 2022, you’d think it’s the Cotton Bowl.

Stephen Means (17:28.244)

And it really did.

Andrew Gillis (17:32.421)

Yeah. Well, actually, you know, like, the cotton ball mixed results because the 2023 team did not play well in the cotton ball that year.

Stefan Krajisnik (17:40.155)

Still got that arm-ag bid though.

Stephen Means (17:42.056)

They’ve been to the cotton ball three times since Ryan Day has been here they got there in 2017 and one so to one one in the cotton ball with Ryan Day on the coaching staff but still it’s a lot of fiestables man it’s a lot of fiestables and they get to the BCS national championship game in 2006 Ted Ginn runs for a kick return for a touchdown and then Florida ran over Ohio State for the rest of the day there that’s a tough way for Troy Smith to end his time here given how dominant he was all year to not be able to do more than 14 points against Florida

two Big Ten titles during his time here. James Zorinaitis, 43 and eight, 29 and three in the Big Ten. This is the four year stretch where like Jim Trestle was really cooking. He just kind of owned the Big Ten. Four Big Ten titles during his time here. And as I mentioned before, Fiesta Bowls got the back to back national championship games, lost both of them though, during James Zorinaitis’ career here. And then they come back.

in 2008, because when you lose two straight national championship games, you just got to be thinking, dude, we got to over the hump one of these years. So they come back, but they don’t quite live up to what they were the past few seasons. And I think they go to the Alamo bowl that year. And that’s how James Lournais has closed out his career here. But that’s the team’s, I don’t know what the right answer is here because is the Heisen trophy that valuable that it’s better than three straight years of you were the best linebacker in the country? I don’t know.

But also I don’t know if it’s not that valuable because it is it’s the most prestigious award in college football. I get that But I Don’t think all Heisman Trophy winners are created equal But Troy Smith if you had to rank Heisman Trophy winning seasons, I think is high on that list So again, the ultimate peak was really really really high But James Zorinaitis might have been the best defensive player in the country essentially every single year. He was here. So I

614-350-3315, two weeks free trial, 399 after that. I’m wondering which way people lean in a situation like this. Let’s take a break and then we’ll come back and talk Michigan, where both of these guys know a lot more success than they do failure, plus some memorable moments. I also wanna talk about how much what James Zoranitis is doing right now impacts the way people should view him in a conversation like this when we come back from the break. I’m about to talk.

Stephen Means (20:02.378)

We’re back on Buckeye Talk. Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick, and Andrew Gillis. It’s our greatest Buckeye bracket. We’re talking James Laurinaitis as the number 10 seed versus Troy Smith, the number two seed. This is the Ryan Day region of the bracket, which I think is kind of funny. It’s the Ryan Day regional championship game is a Heisman Trophy quarterback and his assistant coach. I didn’t plan it that way, but it just kind of worked out like that.

I want to start with James because you brought it up a second ago when he steps in for Bobby Carpenter and that Michigan game. Is that the biggest moment of his good? Because I think that’s part of the problem here is James Lauren. I was just awesome and I’m not sure if there’s a lot of just individual moments versus just sustained. He’s just awesome.

Stefan Krajisnik (20:53.571)

Yeah, I he’s probably kind of in that Archie Griffin boat of just it was so consistent and so. Yeah, it was just so consistent that it’s hard to kind of pick out a moment. I mean, you can go through. mean, there was some great games like, you he had like you said, he comes in the Michigan game. You know, he’s the leading tackler in the game of the century. Obviously, that’s a that’s a game that Troy Smith is going to have some some pull in terms of memorable moments.

The 2006 season, he forced three fumbles, he hit five interceptions. I was kind of trying to see the context of that for Big Ten linebacker. Maryland had a guy in 2018, Trey Watson, who did it. It’s hard to find Big Ten linebackers since James Laurinaitis, have had five interceptions in a season. So maybe more so the moment was kind of that four game stretch in 2006 where he had an interception. It starts off with Texas.

I believe that was a one versus two matchup and then you Cincinnati Penn State Iowa So four straight games with the pick this fifth one came later in the year against Illinois That Texas game is a whole 13 tackles and an interception in 2006 and 2007. He had a game with 19 tackles. So I don’t know I’d love for someone who kind of Maybe if you were a student during 2006 or just during during James Lauren Isis career if there’s like a game that specifically stands out to you

I think the totality was cool. One thing that I didn’t mention, we were talking about Archie Griffin and I kind of came to my mind after the fact. and I’m glad that we have James Lauren eyes cause he’s a perfect example of doing it. There’s something about consistency where it’s like, if you’re not someone who goes to every Ohio state game, right? If you’re not like a season ticket holder or student while these guys are playing, there’s something special to knowing that if you showed up to an Archie Griffin game, like you weren’t worried that you were going to like, dang, I wasn’t there for this game. You saw him rush for a hundred yards.

Stephen Means (22:44.896)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:46.981)

So James Lauren ice kind of in that boat too of like dang I wasn’t there when he had 19 tackles against Wisconsin. Well, you probably saw him have 10 plus tackles and if you if you went to a game in 2006 season, there’s a pretty good chance you saw him get an interception. So there is some element to that too of like if you’re a fan. The and went to games during that time. There’s a better chance to have seen a good James Lauren is game than to not have and I think that that’s kind of cool. So yeah, there’s probably not a memorable moment, but if you’re someone who.

went to one game in 2006, maybe that game stands out for you because it’s the one that you attend or something like that. So not not a ton of pull for James Lauren. I send this in this category, but if you attend the games, you know, once a year or something like that, he’s probably, you know, there’s probably one that stands out in your mind.

Stephen Means (23:33.834)

He played 44 games in his career as an Ohio State football player. He had 10 tackles in 16 games. He had at least nine tackles in 23 games and at least seven tackles in 28 games. So yeah, you were gonna see a productive day out of James Laurinaitis regardless of who they were playing. It didn’t matter if-

Stefan Krajisnik (23:54.556)

And now if you’re going to games, you’re just going to see another 100 tackles live actors because James Lord eyes is helping out.

Stephen Means (23:58.676)

Yeah.

Because he’s teaching them how to do it. This is how you have at least seven tackles every single game, ladies and

Andrew, I want you to brag about Troy. And then I’m gonna hate.

Not on you, but on one game in particular, but go ahead. Memorable moment.

Andrew Gillis (24:19.598)

Yeah, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, the there was a game they played against Penn State in 2006 that I remember he had a really, really great play. Or he threw the ball deep and like there there were the thing like, look, I’m sure you guys did this to you. Look up highlights of the choice on YouTube and you just go back.

Like the Penn State play was one of those things where it was like he rolls to his right and then he reversed his field. He turns his back to the defense and he just turns around and like there were great moments in just big time games. The play that I remembered that I didn’t have to look up was the throw in Ann Arbor when they beat Michigan. And yeah, and he kind of like ran forward.

Stephen Means (25:12.8)

and to come back for him. Yeah.

Andrew Gillis (25:17.774)

And then he ran back and then he threw it down the sideline and Gonzalez caught it inside the five yard line. were down 21 19 at that time. And it like, it looked, it was also a great catch by Gonzalez, by Anthony Gonzalez. So like, you know, the Musburger call on it was great, but like the fact that he had those moments in the biggest games, like where he scrambles around, he’s running around, he throws a ball deep against Penn State and

You know, that was a close game at the time. And then he had the throw to Gonzalez like the moments for him were definitely higher. And like they were definitely like a higher peak. Like with Lauren, it is like you said, it was more of just like, hey, man, this is consistently great. He had 12 tackles this game, 12 tackles this game. And like you look up Lauren, it is games like when they played Texas in 06, he had that interception.

which they were up by seven and he got him on their side of the field and he forced a fumble at the goal line. But like, I think those moments become different if like Lauren Itis runs it back or if Lauren Itis, you know, gets a strip sack late. Like if there’s a, if Lauren Itis scores a touchdown then maybe, but the Troy Smith moments, I think the, who they happened against and what kind of plays they were, I think give him the edge, frankly, in this category, just because like, man, one of his best plays of his Ohio State career came against Michigan.

on the road when they were losing with less than two minutes left in the fourth quarter. Like one of his other great plays came against Penn State when it was a tight game in the fourth quarter. Like he just had a knack for making big time plays at big time moments.

Stephen Means (26:57.504)

highs and lows because Tom Ali also stripped, sacked him and made him flip all over his back. And a win at Penn State Tom ball Holly, who was also coached by Larry Johnson, Larry Johnson, man, all over the Ohio State football, even before he got here, three, 16 and four TDs against Michigan in 2006, stamping home a big 10 championship trip to the national championship and a Heisman trophy.

342 and two TDs against Notre Dame in the fiesta bowl In 2004 he had 240 passing yards 140 rushing yards against Michigan and As Andrew mentioned 2005 he had the comeback win against Michigan. He was awesome against, Michigan

Can I hate for a second?

Am I allowed to do that? Okay.

Andrew Gillis (27:47.586)

Wouldn’t be a Buckeye Park episode if you didn’t.

Stefan Krajisnik (27:51.205)

why we have you around.

Stephen Means (27:52.788)

Has the 2006 game lost some luster? Because it’s not the only game that fits that description anymore.

Stefan Krajisnik (28:06.043)

in terms of Game of the Century.

Andrew Gillis (28:06.19)

What do you mean?

Stephen Means (28:07.945)

Yeah.

Andrew Gillis (28:10.432)

I super don’t think so. I actually think it might be the opposite. I think you could argue it means more because the Ohio State just lost to Michigan and won a national championship. Like Ohio State wins or loses that game. Not only is it the Michigan game, but like your season hinges on that game. Like forget the whole, like if we beat Michigan and we go nine and three, it’s a successful season. Like forget that narrative, forget that whole thing. Like literally you win that game. You’re going to the national championship game. You lose that game. You are going to another

Stephen Means (28:26.336)

for sure.

Stephen Means (28:36.181)

Hmm.

Andrew Gillis (28:39.416)

BCS bowl and everybody’s pissed the entire off season. Not just because you lost to Michigan, but because it ruined your chances at everything else.

Stephen Means (28:49.728)

Yeah. That description going into that Saturday is the same exact description that it was going into that Saturday in 2002 and in 2000 and excuse me, 2022 and 2023. The idea, both of these teams are undefeated because that was why it was the game of the century. It’s we had never seen that before. Ohio state, Michigan or number one and number two, they’re both undefeated with everything on the line. Heisman trophies, big 10 titles.

National championship hopes all of it is on the line. That’s why it was such a big deal now the game itself was awesome It a great game Obviously, I mean technically so it’s 2023. That was pretty good game. It’s just Ohio State’s on the losing end of that, but both teams were undefeated Marv was in the Heisman hunt The winner goes to the Big Ten Championship game and also goes to the playoff the winner What ended up winning the national championship that year? Ohio State backdoored

2022. We have to remember that because shout out the Lincoln Riley, but both were undefeated Heisman Trophy on the line for the starting quarterback. National Championship hopes on the line Big 10 Championship game on the line. All those things have been on the line two more times since then. And so the idea of what that Ohio State Michigan game was in 2006 has lost a little bit of luster for me because

I’ve covered it twice now. Andrew, you covered it your first year on the beat. Now, with that being said. That’s the one Ohio State one. So from an Ohio State perspective, I think you’re right, Andrew. It does push it up a little bit higher because we’ve seen now this scenario three times and only once as Ohio State come out on the winning side and it’s when that guy was the quarterback.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:37.219)

Isn’t the first time always the most special though? If if you know, let’s say you’re born in the 90s like that 2006 game means a ton to you and not to say that 2022 and 2023 don’t but you always kind of remember like man, but back in 06 though back in 06.

Stephen Means (30:39.998)

Yeah, that’s why I’m here to, you know.

Andrew Gillis (30:54.926)

Well, and like it was also like they just it was a level of hype that I really don’t remember for many college football games like that game had it. They had a friggin countdown on ESPN on like Monday countdown to the game like they it was a whole week long circus and they’re just like with all due respect to like the 2019 game or the 2023 game or whatever.

Like even when you think, oh, the 2016 game, like even when you think Ohio state, Michigan might be good. And even when they are good, I haven’t seen that level of craziness. You haven’t seen Notre Dame, Florida state, 1993. You haven’t seen, you know, Oklahoma, Nebraska from back in the day levels of hype. Like it just. It was the perfect blend of we are reaching kind of the peak of, you know,

television and everything’s on TV now and you can hype things up to a different degree and 06 was just different. 06 was a different feel and vibe I think then 22 or anything like that. Well, I think I think it was the high it was the hype of the game but like even in 22 like you said it like Ohio State theoretically they didn’t feel like it at the time but they did back door into the playoff and like even if Michigan like if Michigan had lost that game Michigan would have back to order in the playoff.

Stephen Means (32:03.124)

Well, but why? was it? Because it was.

Stephen Means (32:16.64)

Yeah.

Andrew Gillis (32:21.58)

well. So like the game when it was also for the Big Ten Championship game. So it was like the Big Ten Championship because they didn’t have the Big Ten Championship game. So the Big Ten Championship game in one game against Michigan, was it was essentially a college football semi-final game that happened at the shoe. That was also the Big Ten Championship game that was also against number one and number two. That was also the biggest rivalry game of the year.

Stephen Means (32:24.032)

But that’s hindsight. That’s hindsight.

Stephen Means (32:31.722)

Right.

Andrew Gillis (32:50.518)

Like it just everything combined into one.

Stephen Means (32:54.8)

speaking the Ohio State Michigan game for about two years there was the victim Jimmy because nobody was look you thought I was gonna beat Michigan that year This one it’s still okay. Technically. Yes. There is another game to be played but Everybody knew whoever won that game those two years was going to win the big time

Andrew Gillis (32:59.532)

Of course, of course.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:17.723)

I do have one counter that I think would take your side, Stephen. There was a world in which Michigan lost at 06 and backdoored its way into the title game. Florida was not undefeated.

Stephen Means (33:19.252)

I just, I just wanna.

Yeah.

Stephen Means (33:30.132)

They were still talking about that. Yeah, there were there was conversations about, should we just run this thing back in the national championship game? Which is also, think, why how we got here with the playoff. Because both of those teams, given the way that game played out, deserved a chance to go compete for a national championship. It’s not like Ohio State beat them by four touchdowns. Both of those teams deserved another opportunity to go compete for. That was a it’s.

Andrew Gillis (33:31.83)

It was. And then Florida made it, yeah.

Stephen Means (34:01.568)

Cause even in 2023, they lost that game because Kyle McCord threw an interception at the wrong time early in the game and spotted Ohio State. Sure. Okay. Andrew other things happen, but if Kyle McCord doesn’t throw an interception and give Michigan prime position and essentially spot them seven points, that’s a different football game at the end of it. Now did Ryan Day running down the clock at the end of the first half and deciding to kick a 50 yard field goal, not help. Of course not. Of course not.

But it still goes back. The first thing people are going to think about is, Comma Court throwing a slant to Marvin Harrison Jr. and Will Johnson jumping the route. And Michigan goes and scores a touchdown off of it. That was a competitive football game. And because of how the cotton ball played out, because Marv didn’t play, you lost some transfers, you shuffled your offensive line, some things changed. I think the way people view that 2023 season,

It comes down to, this was not a great year. It’s like you lost one game. It’s just a game you’re not supposed to lose. And that team ended up winning a national title, which is what Michigan did. They lost. Well, no, they ended up losing again that year. But still, it’s the same concept. I think it’s just the first one of its kind. And I think this is an idea of recency bias versus nostalgia. And I think, Andrew, everything you just described is simply nostalgia. It’s because it’s the first time we had ever seen that that description.

We have since seen that description two other times, but because to your point Stefan, it wasn’t first through the door. 2006 was that’s the one that gets all the lore. It’s like, the first time somebody in the NBA scored 50 points. Everybody was like, Whoa, he scored 50. And now it’s like, Oh, okay. Well, Dame had 50 the other night. Oh, well, Yonis had 50 the other night. LeBron.

Stefan Krajisnik (35:54.445)

You gotta do this like TJ Warren dropping 50.

Stephen Means (35:57.14)

Yeah, everybody drops 50 now. So it’s just not as special. And I get that. I get the nostalgia part of it. But also what helps is the background of what happened the night before with Bochum back for passing. So that added to the magnification. But the whole countdown thing, Andrew, it was the biggest game of the season every single year. Ohio State, Michigan. Ohio State’s got a countdown in its building. people count down with things all time.

Andrew Gillis (36:18.786)

Yeah, but it wasn’t a national thing at that point. It wasn’t a national thing in my point. that was my like.

Stefan Krajisnik (36:19.727)

Yeah, but.

Stefan Krajisnik (36:23.579)

But for the sake for the sake of this conversation, does the national thing matter a ton? Because you like you said, Steve, like nationally the twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three games were hyped up as much. But when we’re talking about Ohio State history and the greatest Buckeye, nobody’s bringing up twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three. We’re not talking about Kyle McCord. Right. So in terms of greatest Buckeye, doesn’t twenty twenty or 2006 become even bigger because you won that one and Troy Smith is maybe the reason you won that one.

Stephen Means (36:38.43)

Because they lost.

Stephen Means (36:50.676)

That I will agree with. I think the noise around it is essentially the same. The major difference is this is the team that won it he’s the quarterback of that team who won it. Because again, if CJ Stroud wins in 2022, we’re having a different conversation, man. But guess what? He might be the Jewish need in this bracket, but he didn’t win it. And this is sports. You either did it or you didn’t. And so I want to...

Stefan Krajisnik (37:07.291)

Yeah, might be the two seed in this bracket.

Stephen Means (37:18.334)

I’m hating on the idea of like, whoa, we never, whoa, this thing was so special. It was until it happened back to back years. But if you want to add in the context of, yeah, but we cover Ohio state. And so we’re going to talk about the one Ohio state one, cause that’s the one that’s special. I’m with you on that all the way, even regardless of the Connor Stallions and all those different things. That’s what makes it special. Three different quarterbacks have been in a position.

where Ohio State and Michigan were both 11 and 0 with a Big Ten Championship and a chance at a national title on the line. One of those three got in a hot potential heisman for two of them. One of them got the job done. The other two didn’t get the job done. And the one that got the job done also you would probably say was the number one reason why the job got done. I’ll agree with that. He also has a Michigan lawsuit. With that being said, now credit.

Stefan Krajisnik (38:13.211)

Well...

Stephen Means (38:13.728)

He wasn’t the starting quarterback in 2003 when they lost 35 to 21. And then they went 37 to 21, 25 to 21, 42 to 39 in 2006. James Zoranitis never lost to Michigan. 25 to 21 in 2005, 42 to 39 in 2006, 14 to three in 2007. That’s a defensive. To go from a shootout to a defensive standout the next year, that’s, that’s, that’s peak football. And then they started kicking Michigan’s butt 42 to seven.

in 2008.

One’s undefeated, one’s not.

Stephen Means (38:52.576)

Why are you rolling it? Oh, that’s facts. What’s that?

Stefan Krajisnik (38:54.031)

Did he? No, I’m not disagreeing with the step like did he actually like play a snap in that game in 2003?

Stephen Means (38:59.922)

No, no, no, no, he doesn’t. He he’s lacking gold pants, but he’s not the reason why he’s lacking gold pants at all. I don’t like that. Hate that because he’s a quarterback. So there’s just let’s spots available.

Stefan Krajisnik (39:10.379)

It’s different. Yeah, it’s different for quarterback like James Larnas was even as a backup linebacker if Carpenter hadn’t gotten hurt was always gonna have a bigger role as a true freshman in game then then, know, Troy Smith was even have as a sophomore in that game

Stephen Means (39:25.066)

So, but still.

Stefan Krajisnik (39:25.699)

It’s literally like being like, if Julian Sand goes three and one against Michigan, what are you going to be saying?

Stefan Krajisnik (39:37.101)

Although he was pretty close to getting a snap in the Michigan game, had Devin Brown not been the backup.

Stephen Means (39:37.244)

I’m kidding.

Stephen Means (39:41.144)

I’m saying like listen we were he was that much closer than getting a snap in that game if will Howard didn’t figure out where he was real quickly there Okay

Stefan Krajisnik (39:48.091)

It is true.

Stephen Means (39:55.954)

Okay, I’m just saying, like, that’s...

It’s okay to be nostalgic while also being honest about, we have now seen the Ohio State Michigan, that description multiple times, but the coverage because of both Schimbechler’s death the night before added to the juice of the entire situation.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:18.309)

Game of the decade.

Stephen Means (40:22.088)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:23.803)

It doesn’t sound as cool. Also, do shout out to... I love when games are in titles like that. Like, given a Game of the Century title, six years into a century is pretty awesome. That kind of rocks.

Stephen Means (40:35.177)

Six years, man. Like we don’t know what’s gonna happen for the next 94 years with this one. This one will last the test of time forever.

Andrew Gillis (40:45.102)

Well, I mean, that’s why they I mean, like, that’s why they do it. It’s kind of like a joke. Like it’s it’s like that they do it because there’s multiple games of the century, which is like obviously the

Stephen Means (40:54.932)

I mean, technically at that point we were only six years in, it probably was the game of the century, but in 20 years since that game, there’ve probably been better games.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:59.823)

I- yeah.

At this point...

Andrew Gillis (41:04.435)

Texas might have been the game. five Texas is probably over Texas USC. Sorry was probably a better game than that.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:10.203)

If you ask someone right now if you have someone right now, what’s the game of the century? They probably say Texas USC just like that’s the first game that’s gonna come to

Stephen Means (41:10.238)

Yeah, but I’m not going to...

Stephen Means (41:17.728)

But if you ask an Ohio State fan, what’s the game of the century? What are they gonna say? I think they’ll say that game or they might say 2016, 10 years older.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:26.021)

What if it’s THE game, THE game of the century?

Stephen Means (41:31.092)

So we’re gonna take a break and then we’re gonna come back and talk about war here on Buckeye Talk.

And we’re back on Book I Talk, Stephen Means, Tiffan Kreisnick, and Andrew Gillis. Okay, so I’m done. I think I’m done hating. And I’m just gonna, let’s be real about this, because I feel like the first two parts of this pod, it was a lot of praise for Troy and well warranted. 2006 was special. It’s unfortunate it ended the way it did, but the ride to get to that national championship game was special.

And he’s also the start of a run for Ohio State that I think has kind of gone under the radar. They’ve had a lot of black quarterbacks since then. Troy Smith, Terrell Pryor. They’ve had a couple of non-black, like Troy Smith to Terrell Pryor to Braxton Miller to JT Barrett and Cardell Jones to Dwayne Haskins to Justin Fields to CJ Stroud. That’s like. The fact that that’s just how what happened, and I’ve talked to CJ about that a little bit like that. That’s pretty cool.

that you’ve had that run there and it starts with Troy Smith. know he’s not Cornelius Green is technically the first, but that was years ago. We’re talking about this recent run. starts with Troy Smith.

Stephen Means (42:44.756)

But I think what we’re trying to do here is about more than just football.

And...

Troy Smith was awesome for a year. James Laurinaitis was awesome for three of the four years he was here. And then he’s been a Buckeye ambassador ever since, even before he came in the coaching. And of course, obviously he started with Marcus Freeman as the GA at Notre Dame and then came here was a GA in 2023. And then he takes over the room, the linebacker room in 2024 and immediately the linebacker recruiting is just like, I mean, is this dude Brian Hartline?

I don’t know. That’s a high bar, but I don’t know, man. Andrew might be in a, this is the flip of the five star recruit from USC, which I don’t, I’m not gonna say it’s that hard to flip a five star defensive player for USC. It’s it’s Lincoln Riley’s USC, but still you might be on the verge of doing that. Who knows, but the recruiting is awesome. Cody Simon was awesome last year. Sunny styles might be an all American this year. Arvel Reese we think is the second coming of James or anitis.

Riley Pettigon and TJ Offord look pretty awesome. We’ve caught Eli Lee the next Tommy Eichenberg.

Stephen Means (44:01.672)

I don’t, what has Troy Smith done for Ohio State since he left Ohio State?

Andrew Gillis (44:06.37)

That’s so that’s what I was going to say. I think if you’re talking about it as players like the aura conversation is there’s going to be a lot of people who say. I remember choice, Miss Heisman year. Yeah, James, Lauren is great, but I like how many like if you were to say dear Buckeye John, what is your favorite choice? Smith play? He probably has an answer. What is your favorite James Lauren? It is play.

probably has to think at least a little bit harder for it. And when people have that vibe and that aura and that thing that’s hard to explain and that thing that’s hard to pinpoint, it’s probably Troy Smith as players, frankly.

Stephen Means (44:51.165)

Is it?

Andrew Gillis (44:51.822)

I think I think but it’s not it’s not it’s not it’s not cut black and white where it’s like, hey, you know, this or not, like, I think there’s a reasonable argument for both. So but but what I’m saying is that I think after their careers ended, James Lauren Itis obviously goes and plays in the NFL for quite some time.

Stephen Means (44:54.132)

I don’t think that’s fair.

Stefan Krajisnik (44:55.419)

I don’t know if it is.

Stephen Means (45:05.534)

Right, so I don’t think this is a like, it’s definitely Troy Smith.

Andrew Gillis (45:21.31)

And then he immediately, pretty much immediately joins the coaching ranks. Like it was like four years later that he went.

That’s right. Yeah. And then he, and then he went to Notre Dame. Troy Smith was not in the NFL for a very long time. And then he played in the CFL for a little bit and he’s been out of football for over a decade now. And we talked about Archie Griffin as Archie. Like I got an email today from one of our long-time listeners who always sends me emails and things like that. And I really appreciate it. And he said,

I appreciate the effort, but it was an exercise in futility trying to trying to say that anybody else is is up there with Archie. But but wait in terms of at least with the Buckeye aura. But it like we mentioned it with him. It’s like he’s still the narrator for the hype video. He’s still at the shoe. He’s still around. He’s still making appearances and like, look, I’m not saying like if you go to Ohio State, guess what?

Stephen Means (46:07.39)

Yeah, I know. Yeah, we tried.

Andrew Gillis (46:30.52)

You have to live the rest of your life in Columbus, Ohio, and you have to be the Buckeye ambassador. No, but.

He just isn’t around. Like you just don’t see him in that in that type of circle. Like he is in the same category as Archie Griffin. He is in the same category as a lot of different famous Ohio State players like and you just don’t see him as much. And James Laurinaitis came back to Ohio State and he is a incredible linebackers coach.

you know, that seems to be the yearly returns and that’s where we’re at with with Lauren Itis. like, I think where it is at the very least, like you guys obviously disagree, like you guys would take Lauren Itis. like, I think at the very least, you have to concede that it is an argument that you could make an argument as players. I think the totality of it since they’ve ended their careers at Ohio State gives this to Lauren Itis because

One guy’s around and one guy’s not.

Stefan Krajisnik (47:38.748)

Yeah, I mean the the aura of the 2006 season is always going to be something that it’s why he’s the two seed in this bracket to be quite honest, you know there’s and then there’s the the Senior Day moment, you know where he comes out and you know he’s hugging his family and he’s doing the slides that like that’s all that’s all part of the the choice with or there’s no doubt about that, but. This conversation is about so much more than even that where I want to make it clear that like I don’t think anything Troy Smith has done is wrong.

Like I don’t, you know, if, you don’t want to, you don’t have to be living in Columbus and being an ambassador for Ohio state day in and day Like you don’t have to be a coach at Ohio state. He doesn’t have to do any of that. So him deciding, Hey, I want to get away from this is not a wrong decision. That’s his decision. And there’s a lot of college football players throughout the country who do that. Like it’s so there’s a lot of people at Ohio state that aren’t around a ton. Like that’s totally fine. That’s your decision.

But James Lorneis also actively made the decision to be a coach and to be around and to be a fixture around Ohio State, even as we’re in 2025. And as much as you might think that’s not a wrong decision by Troy, James gets points for making his decision. James gets boosted. You don’t have to take away from Troy, but you can give points to James for his presence still around the program.

His impact on the program, the way he talked about Ohio State when he was in the media like he has because he has become a very public ambassador for Ohio State, not just because he wants to land recruits like he was that before he was a coach trying to recruit players. And that’s. That’s significant in this conversation. What does it mean to be a Buckeye? It means to be around and present even when you’re done playing. It means to have an impact on the program when you’re not playing.

The guy who’s probably going to win this was, what’d you say, Steven? The CEO and president of the Alumni Association? Like that stuff matters. That stuff matters.

Stephen Means (49:38.272)

The CEO and president the alumni like what do you do with that man now I want to be fair

Stephen Means (49:52.416)

Troy does seem to at least be a little bit more active on social media and talking about Ohio State lately. And I do think part of that is there has been a resurgence of Linville players at Ohio State recently, right? We talk about our, we saw the time that Marion Whitten is on this team as well. Bryce West is on this team’s. Andrew, they’ve got some guys in the 2026, but since you’re Johnson, who they’re going after, I know they just lost it.

Defensive tackle to Florida, which I don’t know how you that happens, but we’re a long way from signing day We don’t know what’s gonna happen things can change over time, but it does seem like the revival of that pipeline for Ohio State has Resulted and we’re seeing more of those former Glenville, Ohio State guys Being a little bit more prominent around the pro like Ted Ginn juniors around the program a decent he was around a lot now like good bill brings their kids Andrew we’re gonna be covering these camps

This summer, Glenville brings a whole conglomerate to one of these camps every single year. Right. I don’t know if you were here yet, Andrew. No, I know for a fact you were not here yet in 2023. Ryan day opened up spring practice and had Ted gun, Jr. Ted gun, senior believe, excuse me, talk with the team before the first spring practice. Like that, that I think has opened the door a little bit, but that means in five years when we do this, maybe we’re having a different conversation.

about Troy Smith and what’s happened since then. But all this stuff is great and I don’t want to devalue it, but it’s just hammering home the point that you’re a good football player. You were an awesome football player here. You gave these fans an awesome moment in 2026. That was a, we’re talking about memorable moments. 2026 is just an, it’s a long moment, but the totality of even before James Zoranitis was in the building.

as a coach, you knew he was kind of waving an Ohio State flag. Now he was professional. He did his job really, really well. When he was in the media, I thought he was one of the better color commentators in the media space. But he was around and he was present and you never, never really went away in terms of I’m still an Ohio State, but guy at the end of the day, he was doing local media. He was on 97 one, the fan.

Stephen Means (52:14.036)

Troy just, and you’re right, Stephane, you don’t have to do those things. You can go live your life. We talked about it with Orlando Pace. Orlando Pace is living down there in Missouri, living his life. It doesn’t take away from who you were when you were playing here. It just means when we’re trying to separate and we’re in the Elite Eight trying to figure out who the greatest Buckeye is, we gotta start finding ways to separate these guys. And when one was a vital part of Ohio State’s present in the 2000s,

and now he’s helping set up his future, that’s the tiebreaker. Especially when, Andrew, you’re talking about, it’s a conversation who actually had the better career between Troy Smith and James Laurinaitis. Troy Smith has the best accolade of the two of them with the Heisman Trophy, but in terms of who had a better four or five years as an Ohio State football player, that’s a conversation. I don’t think there’s either way of that where you can go 100 % it’s this guy or that guy. So if that’s already a toss up,

and the other side of it is 100 % one guy over the other. I know who I am voting for in this because this isn’t just a who’s the better football player. And even that’s a conversation. This is about

what they mean to a program. And James Laurinaitis was a three time All-American linebacker and now he’s recruiting the next three time All-American linebacker and developing the next three time American linebacker. I don’t know if it gets to that. You know what the equivalent would be? If Troy Smith had been hired as Ohio State’s quarterback coach and not Billy Fessler.

Stefan Krajisnik (53:49.945)

He’d probably land some five star quarterbacks.

Stephen Means (53:52.388)

You know, it’s like, hey, Ryan Day is awesome at developing quarterbacks. You should come play here. But also because Ryan Day is a head coach and has to run the whole program, the guy who’s going to be in the room with you won the last Heisman Trophy. It’s his record you’re breaking.

Stephen Means (54:12.628)

We haven’t had a major upset. We’ve had some lower seeds win, but I do think that.

It’s like when you get a higher seed loses to a lower seed where you look back on it in hindsight and say, that was a bad matchup for the higher seed. This is a tough matchup for Troy Smith because it starts strong. He’s going to have a quality first half, but then depth is going to start creeping in and all of a sudden James Lord night is wins 35 to 28. Yeah. No, let’s talk about it.

Stefan Krajisnik (54:41.499)

Do we all want to say who our pick is? Because I don’t know if all of us agree on this one.

I’m going with Laurinaitis. think the current, I think the post-career stuff matters in this debate.

Stephen Means (54:54.342)

Mm-hmm. Especially when the actual careers feel like they’re so neck and neck.

I think that Gillis is sticking with Troy.

Andrew Gillis (55:07.02)

Yeah, stick with Troy. They do to me. The Heisman Trophy is the literal physical example of awesomeness as football players.

Stephen Means (55:08.82)

Do Heisman’s matter that much? Like is that?

Stephen Means (55:26.174)

But in a world where one plays a position where it’s a little more reasonable to have an expectation that he can win a Heisman Trophy than the other one does.

Andrew Gillis (55:32.686)

And that’s totally fair as well.

Stephen Means (55:36.672)

I don’t want, I feel like I’m now devaluing the Heisman Trophy. I ain’t that for myself.

But it’s a quarterback award, sprinkled in with some wide receivers and running backs. But in this era, it’s become a quarterback award.

So it’s hard to place value on something when people of his position win it all the time, while people in James Laurinias’s position group never win it.

Andrew Gillis (55:55.203)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (56:09.406)

Which is why it was such a big deal that Travis Hunter won it this year. And look what he had to do to win it. He had to play both sides of the ball.

Devontae Smith needed Jaylen Waddle to get hurt for him to have the year he had.

Stefan Krajisnik (56:29.305)

This is a hypothetical that doesn’t matter because Troy Smith did win the Heisman. I would love to know how the conversation around Troy Smith would look if like, if Tebow had broken out one year earlier. What if Tebow wins the 2006 Heisman instead of 2007? And Troy Smith is still a great quarterback who’s second in the Heisman race and leads Ohio State to a national title game.

So that’s why I think maybe the Heisman is heavy because maybe if he doesn’t win it that year and I know like it was a wide margin like this is completely a hypothetical but like Maybe he doesn’t win it that year. Maybe he’s not a two-seater in this maybe it’s a it’s a different outlook which which shows you how important the Heisman is because he is the two-seater in this and he did win the Heisman and he is the last Ohio State player to do it like

It’s a pretty heavy trophy. I think both literally and figuratively.

Stephen Means (57:25.024)

Okay, we’re saying if he doesn’t win the Heisman he’s not the two seed Which is fair James or not. It doesn’t have a Heisman

Stefan Krajisnik (57:34.011)

That’s just me pointing out how much I think the Heisman matters.

Stephen Means (57:38.57)

For sure. Is Troy Smith on this list if he doesn’t win the Heisman?

Stefan Krajisnik (57:45.55)

on the top 32.

Stephen Means (57:47.264)

Yeah.

Andrew Gillis (57:48.162)

Yeah, he’s in the top 32.

Stefan Krajisnik (57:49.371)

I still think so, probably.

Stephen Means (57:50.228)

You’re sure? 100%.

Andrew Gillis (57:51.886)

Yes, he, yeah, he’s still in a great year.

Stefan Krajisnik (57:54.364)

Because think the Michigan success matters. I think he would essentially be a favorite crowd with wins against Michigan.

Andrew Gillis (58:04.024)

Cause like, don’t think anybody’s going to dispute like, CJ Stroud had a better two year run than Troy Smith, like as a quarterback. I think like there is, there are things that like, and like, it sucks to have this like Stroud conversation, but like, you know, there are things that’s like, that are out of his control. Like, yeah, maybe it was the Stallions thing. What, like maybe it was that, or, you know, like the one year his defense was not great. And

Stephen Means (58:10.655)

Okay.

Andrew Gillis (58:31.526)

Maybe that was the issue, right? Like in 2021, you know, Michigan, I know the science healing stuff, but they also just, they could have ran power the entire game and the Ohio State just couldn’t stop it. Like there were moments that it just, the stars do have to align in some way. And like, it does stink, but like they did for choice to math and they didn’t for CJ.

Stephen Means (58:59.232)

It’s fair. It’s a good point.

Stephen Means (59:04.478)

It’s just difficult because it’s...

Andrew Gillis (59:08.558)

But it’s also we reached this point of the game and it’s like, all right, Troy Smith, Heisman Trophy winner. Let’s poke at him. James Laurinaitis, one of the greatest linebackers in Ohio State history. Let’s poke at him. know, like it feels like we’re talking about it.

Stephen Means (59:19.241)

Yeah, yeah, that’s funny.

Stefan Krajisnik (59:22.027)

We’re going to do that the week of August 30th when it’s like, yeah, these two teams are really good. Where can Ohio State expose them? Where can they expose Ohio State?

Andrew Gillis (59:28.014)

Yeah, we’re gonna hire a yeah.

Stephen Means (59:28.562)

Welcome to Ohio State. This is what everybody is. What we do is what the fans do. It’s what they do in the building. Everybody goes, they weren’t or they lost. If they win, it’s like, all right, but this is why they could have lost and what they might lose later. If they lose, it’s like, see, you should fix these problems. You better get them together or we’re going to be talking about it at the beginning of November.

Andrew Gillis (59:32.942)

Right, exactly.

Stefan Krajisnik (59:48.059)

20 years after we’re in the Heisman, we’re nitpicking choice. Welcome to Ohio State.

Stephen Means (59:51.624)

Yeah. Right. But I’m all I’m saying is the totality of James Laurinaitis screams Buckeye so much more than because one guy won a trophy, even if it is the biggest trophy in the sport, especially when he plays a position that over the last 25 years has dominated that award.

If this, if the Heisman Trophy let everybody in, in terms of if we really wanted to break down year by year who truly deserves the Heisman Trophy versus who got it.

You probably cut the amount of quarterbacks who have won the award in half, which raises the value of it when you play quarterback. But in a world where Troy Smith has a Heisman Trophy, Jameis Winston has a Heisman Trophy, Marcus Mariota has a Heisman Trophy, Kyler Murray has a Heisman Trophy. I don’t think Sam Bradford has a Heisman Trophy. Sam Bradford has a Heisman Trophy. Do you see what I’m talking about here?

Andrew Gillis (01:01:01.73)

Hit the does.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:01:08.579)

I it’s why I emphasize the Buccus award so much when we started this. For James to win that, think it’s almost as hard historically for an Ohio State linebacker to win the Buccus award as it is for an Ohio State quarterback to win the highest.

Stephen Means (01:01:11.614)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:01:22.106)

USC won back-to-back Heisman Trophies with two different players from the same team.

Stephen Means (01:01:29.14)

This is me getting to a whole other rant about how we need to read. Yeah, this is yeah, this is nothing extraordinary.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:01:31.643)

Yeah, this is mean, this is a Heisman thing. We can do this in December when JJ should very obviously win the Heisman and like. Kate Clubnick is running away with it.

Stephen Means (01:01:43.296)

I’m gonna come back to this in December.

Andrew Gillis (01:01:47.022)

Put a pin in it.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:01:47.471)

Yeah, if you hear this again in December, I promise it’s not us accidentally hitting republish or something on a podcast.

Stephen Means (01:01:53.736)

I don’t often truly get frustrated when we’re recording. Sometimes I’m just having fun with it because it’s pod. This is supposed to be fun. Okay, we cover sports. This is not supposed to be so serious. That is the one conversation that will legitimately frustrate.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:08.555)

Mm, that’s for, Lenora Sellers going after the Heisman and going against JJ.

Stephen Means (01:02:13.908)

But see, I can get around that one. I think Lenora Sellers is awesome. So that’s a little different. South Carolina fans.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:16.868)

true.

Stephen Means (01:02:22.196)

But I mean, that might be the case. It’s like, if JJ is clearly the best football player on the planet this year, and he finishes like third in Heisman Trophy voting because the two people above him are quarterbacks for playoff teams, Andrew, I’m going to come on a pod. And I’m going to say, Andrew, you have to change your vote for Troy Smith. I know it’s six months later, but you need to your vote because the sub-award has lost value. And it’s, I don’t think you’re wrong in picking Troy. Again, this is a toss up.

Andrew Gillis (01:02:46.862)

That’s funny.

Andrew Gillis (01:02:51.438)

Again, it’s cool. Yeah, this is this is one of those matchups where it’s like, what was Lauren Itis again in seeding? He was his. It’s a 210 matchup where this is like, this feels a little bit like, like you have your two seed and then your 10 seed in the NCAA tournament is like a power conference program that they had a tough schedule and like, hey, they finished like 24 and 10. But

Stephen Means (01:02:52.863)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:02:56.948)

He was terrible. I think everybody in the top 10 deserved a leader. Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:03:11.082)

Who just had a tough schedule?

Stephen Means (01:03:17.29)

Yeah.

Andrew Gillis (01:03:19.042)

They also, they’re like eight of their losses. They have a weird loss in there, but like eight of their losses came.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:23.461)

Yes, you see.

Stephen Means (01:03:24.448)

Is James or Inidis the 2024 Ohio State football team?

where they get to the playoff, it’s like, course they’re kicking everybody’s butt. This is what we thought they were gonna do when they put the roster together. They just decided to get to Oregon and not know how to play defense and then get to Michigan and not know how to play offense.

Andrew Gillis (01:03:41.438)

No, I don’t think so.

Stephen Means (01:03:44.286)

Why? Because Archie Griffith is.

Andrew Gillis (01:03:46.446)

No, because you could be, because James Laurinaitis is not gonna beat the snot out of Troy Smith, even if he wins. I mean, we’re gonna find out, like we’re gonna find out what our teachers have to say. But like, don’t think, don’t, like, I don’t think we’re gonna be at a percentage where Stephen goes, well, guys, we got through the Elite Eight and James Laurinaitis won 84 % to 16%. I don’t think we’re gonna do that, which is kind of what Ohio State did to like three or.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:46.875)

I was going to say 2024 Ohio State didn’t have to play the Mons cars.

Stephen Means (01:03:54.482)

I don’t know, we’re gonna find out.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:56.198)

Next is, next is a, cotton ball was in a fallout. Maybe it’s just this cotton ball.

Stephen Means (01:04:06.43)

I mean, be fair.

Stephen Means (01:04:12.032)

I mean, to be fair.

Correct. But we didn’t think they were going to do that. We were all sitting there in Pasadena in the press box going it is 34 to nothing.

Andrew Gillis (01:04:16.152)

two or three of the teams in the playoffs.

No, that’s fair. And so I guess we’ll find out if they do, if he does.

Andrew Gillis (01:04:29.26)

We booked our flights when it was 14 nothing because we went, we booked our flights for Dallas because we were like,

Stephen Means (01:04:33.14)

Well, no, OK, so here’s what actually happened during that run, because the Tennessee game, we all thought they were going to win, but we were worried about how good they were going to look and if they were going to run out of steam at some point. And then they won that game. And I think we booked Pasadena in the third quarter after.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:04:51.161)

Pasadena we booked ahead of time just because flying to LA was a bit more expensive. We did like refundable flights.

Stephen Means (01:04:53.728)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it’s New Year. Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. So it wasn’t like that. I think we were looking after JJ second touchdown, we were looking at each other and going, all right, well, we’re not canceling those flights.

Pasadena.

Stephen Means (01:05:11.408)

It was, think, Andrew, you’re right. It was 14 to nothing and we’re already in this world where maybe Ohio State is gonna kick everybody’s butt. We start looking at flights. Because what we were gonna do is as soon as the game was going to end and we wanted to be able to make sure we had them booked.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:05:26.715)

We’re basically like typing your credit card number hit purchase the moment the clock hits zero.

Stephen Means (01:05:30.208)

Correct. Correct. And then it’s 34 to nothing and we go, oh, okay, well, there, I might just press purchase right now. See you in a little bit.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:05:37.275)

It was 34 dot that was 34 dot that Steven looked at me and goes, yeah, I fly out at 7 a.m.

Stephen Means (01:05:43.095)

But again, but and then by then we get to Texas and it’s like, they’ll house it’s just gonna kick everybody’s butt. This is what they’re doing at this point. You’re right Archie Griffin exists. So I don’t know if that is possible for James Lauren. I’m not going to rule out that either one of these guys wins in blowout fashion because that’s why I keep asking how much does the Heisman Trophy really matter when this is just competition?

Cause it’s not about like me trying to devalue the award. It’s one great season versus sustained success. And now here he is as an assistant coach where he’s just as awesome as he was as a player. And he’s done all that under the Ohio state banner. He’s never, he’s a GA at Notre Dame for one year working for his best friend who also played linebacker at Ohio state.

And you know what the entire fan base said? Hey, Ryan, you might want to go get James out of South Bend because he might be pretty good at this. And so he brought him to Columbus. And then everybody went, hey, Ryan, you might want to give him a full time job because I think somebody is going to steal him. And now we see why we should have given him a full time job. So what matters more sustained excellence in the name of Ohio State or a memorable 2006? There’s no wrong answer, but if.

depends on how many people fall on which side of that coin. We don’t think it’s going to be a blowout, but if it’s 84 % to 16 % one way or the other, cause more people believe this or the other, I’m not going to be shocked about that either. 614-350-33152, if we try out 399 after that, let us know that voting is now out as you’re listening to this pod on Thursday. Tomorrow we wrap things up with Chris Spellman versus JT Barrett, where we have to spend part of that segment admitting that we’re young.

We have to, we have to, hold, we, our jobs are holding other people accountable. We have to hold ourselves accountable as well. We have to come on that pod and all apologize to our listeners and our texters for being young people because we’ve got a very, very important factor of Chris Spielman and why he is so important at Ohio State. We’ll get more into that on Thursday. In the meantime, for Stefan Christic and Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means. That was Buckeye Talk.