Who the Browns should take No. 2; inside Emmanuel Clase’s early struggles: Terry’s Talkin’ podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio — This week’s episode of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast is live, with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. This week, Terry explains why he has locked in on the player he wants the Browns to take with their No. 2 overall pick in NFL Draft 2025.

Also, we also share our early impressions of the Guardians, and look at what might be behind the early struggles of closer Emmanuel Clase.

We also discuss the Cavs as they gear up for the playoffs, and a listener asks about the Evan Mobley-Kevin Durant comparison.

Have any questions or comments for the podcast? Send your thoughts and questions in via email to us at sports@cleveland.com and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line, and we’ll try to feature it on an upcoming episode.

Highlights:

• Terry reflects on the nostalgia and significance of opening day in baseball.
• The Guardians’ ballpark experience is designed to appeal to both traditional and modern fans.
• Why Terry is sold on Travis Hunter as the No. 2 overall pick to the Browns.
• A reader asks why Will Howard isn’t generating more draft buzz.
• Terry gets into Kenny Pickett’s stats and compares them to two other QBs who made the most of another chance with another team.
• Panic check: A listener asks how much panic Terry has for various parts of the Guardians after their slow start.
• Inside Emmanuel Clase’s struggles and what’s different in 2025.
• Terry is recognized for his sports commentary.
• A listener asks if the Evan Mobley-Kevin Durant comparisons are fitting.
• Inside Cleveland State’s hiring of new men’s basketball coach Rob Summers.
• Listener story about sneaking a radio into school to listen to the 1975 Indians home opener with Frank Robinson’s debut as manager.

Here’s the podcast for this week:

If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.

If you have a question or a topic you’d like to see included on the podcast, email it to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.

You can find previous podcasts below. The transcript below was generated by a computer, and as such it contains many spelling and grammar errors.

Stories by Terry Pluto

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• ‘One Minute You’re Here ... ‘: From Bruce Springsteen to Easter – Terry Pluto’s Faith & You

David Campbell (00:25.701)

Hey, it’s time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host. Terry Pluto is here as he is every week with me. Terry, how was opening day? We are taping this on Thursday as opposed to Tuesday, our usual slot, but you were able to be at the Guardian’s home opener on Tuesday. How was that?

Terry Pluto (00:43.842)

I got to enjoy the best of everything because I was inside, but I was there and I could see, you know, Rocky Sun catching the pass because I was thinking Jack Sawyer was, that had gotten the football and then catching the first pitch from Sawyer’s, from Sawyer and then the Frank Robinson family there. And it was, it was not, they do a good job with those things. The guardians do. I haven’t, didn’t get a chance to walk all around the ballpark, but you could tell,

David Campbell (00:53.851)

That’s right.

Terry Pluto (01:12.162)

from one year to the next is getting, it’s just getting better. You know, cause the, thing that, when we talk stadiums, you know, the reason there’s a lot of, feeling to get rid of Brown stadium there is because it was just kind of slapped up there. You know, I mean, it’s fine, but it was to me, it like a classic government project, you know, the NFL version of the department of motor vehicles or something. and I really, I mean, it’s okay, but there, whereas

When Progressive Field was built, think it was HOK, was the company that did it. And they were always like Camden Yards is there, and there’s a couple others. I think they did the renovation on Kansas City’s ballpark. They create ballparks. They don’t create stadiums. They create a sense of things of personality. And then once you have it,

whether it’s like Fenway Park or some of these others, something you want to keep if you can and work off of it. And that is what they keep doing. I know this stuff that were the Terrace Club and that I was talking to Brian Baron from the Guardians. He’s one of their big, I think he’s the CFO or in charge of business and more and more of the fans and they got out in front of this like this being able to move around during a game.

you know, with TV sets and their friends and take pictures. And I mean, there’s plenty of seats if you want to sit there and you bring your scorecard from 1972 with your golf pencil, you could do that also. But you also have to appeal to your current and next generation of fans. mean, frankly, most of my friends are, love the guardians and they watch them on TV. That’s what they do. Great.

And finally, they got these things on TV where you could find them for the most part. But, the ballpark is designed where you could have both. I, I’ve just, I’ve loved that ballpark from when they’ve opened it. I’ve loved what they’ve done with it. you know, you can nitpick this or there, but you just walk in there and it’s, it has a special feeling to it.

David Campbell (03:20.399)

And I think you’re right to hear that the guardians have done a really good job of kind of rolling with what the what the audience wants, which is what you just laid out. Like if you ever go on a summer night, there’s an entire stream of people coming from Tremont over the bridge to the ballpark on scooters and bikes and walking. And you know, the young crowd coming over from Tremont, they don’t necessarily want to sit in the same two or four seats for, for a nine inning game. want to be walking around the ballpark. And I think the guardians and the people who have been working on the park have really

Terry Pluto (03:26.606)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (03:34.102)

Yeah.

David Campbell (03:50.043)

done an excellent job of providing those spaces where like you said, whatever you want, however you want to experience the game, you can do it there and have fun.

Terry Pluto (03:56.43)

I remember when they first put up the bar area or whatever, that was almost like eight or 10 years ago now. I was down there and it was like early May and it was one of those, know, maybe you got 7,000 in the seats, maybe you don’t. And I went down there and I was shocked how many people were there. I expected it to be really empty, but there were a lot of folks there, not that it was packed, but you know, elsewhere, I mean, foul balls are being hit in the stands and there’s nobody in the sections.

That was a revelation to me that they had tapped into something because it was just starting to come out too. And then the other thing they do, they’re back again with doing those where you buy the standing room only for each month, whatever it is, have 49 bucks or whatever. And then they’re building areas that it appeals to that fan because they also know this, if we could get them in the ballpark, they’re going to buy something.

David Campbell (04:44.825)

the whole month.

Terry Pluto (04:56.29)

You know, get them in there, have them buy something, but you never want to give your product away. In other words, just give away free tickets to have people in. You know, you, you want to make sure that people know your, your bulb. was talking to some people in pro sports. say, yeah, you could do it for a, you know, a charity or something like that. But in general, you want people to know they have to pay something for your product that it’s worth it, but you get discounted or dress it up differently. And I just,

I don’t know. looked at that. Granted, I grew up a baseball fan. My father took me to the old stadium and there just always is something special about opening day. Cause if you think about it, there’s never much discussion about opening day in the NBA or opening day and in the NFL, other than the season starting. How is, is there anything with the NHL like that with opening day? Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, well, here we go. That’s it.

David Campbell (05:45.935)

No, not at all, nope.

Yeah, and by the way, Terry, I did want to mention you had a really lovely column the other day where you started analyzing the guardians and then you were like, wait a minute, it’s opening day. And I think you’re right. It’s something about it’s spring. Like spring is here and hope that for better weather and summer memories and the whole bit.

Terry Pluto (05:56.866)

It’s opening day, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (06:06.454)

Yeah. I mean, we’ll deal with them not catching the ball on our podcast or whatever. got plenty of time for that, but, and just, mean, I remember. looking back and I know it was an opening day before 1965 when Calvito came back, but I remember that one, what excitement it was. Rocky was traded when I was five and my father loved Rocky Calvito like a whole fans of that generation. And then when he came back in 65,

David Campbell (06:10.033)

Right, it’s right.

Terry Pluto (06:35.692)

there was this all this excitement and I mean, you know, know that the, the, the tribe back then, they were mad because he was making like $50,000 or something like that, a lot of money. So they play them 162 games in right field, like every inning of every game. He doesn’t make an error. You know, I think he led the league with a night 95 blocks and 108 RBIs and the 28 homers. Remember this is back when, the sixties when people were not hitting at all. And.

But you go back and look at that trade, by the way, to bring him back as bad as Harvey Keene for Rocky Calvito was the first time around. The second one was Tommy John and Tommy Agee for Calvito. And Tommy John went on to win like 200. This is one of my books, of course, for Rocky Calvito. He went on to win like 280 games after that and get a surgery named after him. Agee had a really nice career with the Mets. And I think he was MVP of the Miracle Mets World Series.

And you know Rocky unfortunately within a couple years by 67, you know, he was coming towards the end You know, it’s funny if you look he actually pitched in the majors a few times and had some good numbers I always wondered why you couldn’t do you know put him on the bullpen?

David Campbell (07:51.749)

Yeah, why not? Did everything else. So, all right, Terry, that was a great way to start. So we’re two weeks out from the NFL draft. It’s two weeks from tonight, which is crazy to think about, but let’s start with the bronze and we’ll get back to the Guardians in a little bit. And we actually have a listener email about Rocky at the end, which I think might’ve been the year you were talking about. So for those of you who haven’t signed up yet and are not subscribers to Terry’s newsletter, people who got it yesterday learned.

Terry Pluto (07:53.958)

Yeah. All right.

Terry Pluto (07:59.81)

Yes.

Terry Pluto (08:10.296)

Okay.

David Campbell (08:20.913)

Terry’s pick for who he wants the Browns to take number two overall in the NFL draft. And I don’t know, I guess we can unveil it here too, Terry. Why don’t you talk about how you came to the, yeah, that’s right. A slow roll-on.

Terry Pluto (08:29.582)

Sure, why not? We’re rolling it out gradually. Then I’ll write about it for the weekend, some more. But I’m looking at different things when it comes to the draft. And I hadn’t really looked at a whole bunch of tape with Travis Hunter. You see these highlights.

But I dig into a couple of the kind of scouting tapes and then you just kind of look at raw numbers. What was it? 96 catches, three drops, three. And if you watch a lot of the catches he made, he really did help Shadur Sanders a lot because his ability to go between two defenders, jump up and hang onto the ball catches and traffic. and there were many passes I saw where Sanders was thrown.

Field and hunter was running and actually hunter either had to stop or backtrack and come get the ball Which you know is one of those things why some of the NFL scouts I think Put a little bit of concern marks next to Sanders this thing because you could see that he really should have got more on that ball to get it down there maybe doesn’t quite have the arm strength you want and I’m thinking all right this guy I Haven’t seen a receiver tape like this since I don’t

I’m just saying it. Now you got the defensive back element too, but I’m like, I rather have them on offense. You had the worst scoring offense in the NFL, the worst. I think 15 points a game.

And I’m know you’re you go, you say you’re to play with Kenny Pickett and you know, like, well, you may end up starting that way. you, but you know, the, draft is there. There’s other guys that could pick up, but if that’s the old thing of, think it was a bill Walsh statement or whatever. If you don’t draft the guy you love and you can, you’re going to end up playing against them for the next 10 years. And that was, that always stuck with me. Now, granted, if you think Chedir Sanders is, is, is great. And.

Terry Pluto (10:37.868)

You get into playing and he goes to the stewards or something and you may end up playing against them in the next 10 years. But if I stack those two players together, who has a chance to be a consistent pro bowl player for a decade? It’s Hunter.

David Campbell (10:52.667)

Alright, well we got an email from Brian Kirkendall, long time listener, and Brian says, know you’re not big on draft prospects or the draft, Terry, but I’m curious on Travis Hunter. What made him great is he played both ways all the time. That is his unique value and in my 57 years I never saw anyone do it at that level as consistently. I watched most of their games. My wife loves Deon, but certainly don’t fancy myself a talent scout like Roberta is.

Terry Pluto (11:04.503)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (11:17.496)

Yeah.

David Campbell (11:17.541)

What I wonder about is that number two in the draft, you have to be elite as a wide receiver who is, he is very good like a Mecca Ibuka from OSU. But if he was just a wide receiver, he would not be the number two overall pick. He is not a Jeremiah Smith type wide receiver who is dominant. He also isn’t a complete game changer at defensive back, although he’s very good and would be a first round pick. So if he’s only going to do one thing like the Browns say he will, is he really the right value as the number two overall pick? That’s an interesting thought from Brian. So.

Terry Pluto (11:46.336)

Yeah, it depends how you evaluate them. and your turn’s coming, but I’ll just counter with, I don’t see a better receiver in this draft. And I just think that 96 catches, three drops, 115 snaps per game. The concentration to only drop three balls on that and play both sides of the ball. And he, I mean, he had a good quarterback, but

I’m just not dying in the chateau or being great. And that’s it. Look at the tape. This guy’s making catches with people all over him. All right, then you throw in the fact he’s an academic all-American and there’s no big off the field stuff with him.

David Campbell (12:34.737)

I gotta go back to what you just said to it. don’t think, I think Heisman voters got this and which is why he won it, but I don’t think people understand. He’s playing two football games every game. He’s playing both ways all the time. I mean, to play at a, at a hall of fame level, on one side of the ball when you’re, you can’t be a hall of famer on both sides of the ball at the same time. Like it is not physically possible. And for him.

Terry Pluto (12:36.088)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (12:44.877)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (12:49.505)

Right.

Terry Pluto (13:00.351)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (13:03.513)

Imagine what he’s going to be like when he’s only playing one side of the ball and maybe a handful of plays on the other side, right? Maybe they bring him in on defense or if he’s playing offense, maybe they bring him in on defense on key plays or vice versa. Like when they need a nickel, extra nickel, if they’re playing him at defensive back, maybe they bring him in when it’s third and 12 on offense. Like to do what he did. Yes, it wasn’t exceptional all the time on every single play, but my man, look at what he did. It’s nuts.

Terry Pluto (13:31.15)

I’m just saying, look at the tape of him as a receiver. Take the other stuff out of it. All right, now this is where my lack of football knowledge probably jumps out. And I’m looking at some of the defensive tape, but I’m thinking about him as a wide receiver, and I’m going, what about him as a free safety?

David Campbell (13:53.669)

Man, I don’t know, usually you want somebody with a little bit more size and kind of, I don’t know, just a little bit thicker. You know I’m saying? Somebody who can hit. Yeah, he is a little thin.

Terry Pluto (14:03.852)

Yeah. Yeah. He sent, he sent. I agree on that, but I was thinking in terms of the forever the Browns have been, boy, we need a guy as safety can make place. And, by that they mean on the ball, but that was a thought. Now, one thing I am concerned that on the defensive tapas, he makes a lot of what I call shoulder tackles, where he kind of rolls his body into people to tackle them. That’s asking for injury.

David Campbell (14:27.653)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think if you look, Grant Delpit is kind of like a typical safety, right? Kind of rangy, a little bit, not as lean as Travis Hunter is. So, but it’s funny, Terry, you know, I always, when we, when we get to draft season, you always think like, what should the Browns do and what will the Browns do? And I think you and I came, you and I have kind of come on Travis Hunter, like at the same time, independently of each other.

Terry Pluto (14:45.656)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (14:52.514)

Yeah.

David Campbell (14:52.773)

Because I think in this situation, I think it’s not only what the Browns should do, but I also think it’s what they will do. I think they both align here. And the reasons in my head are this team. And I think I said this on a week or two on the two ago on the podcast, this team needs turnovers and touchdowns. Right. And you’ve written about this. Who’s the, who’s their playmaking players on offense? It’s like Jerry, Judy, and David and Joku when he’s, when he’s healthy and able to play.

Terry Pluto (15:11.053)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (15:22.853)

That’s it. Like they have nobody else. And Travis Hunter would be an instant playmaker, a guy who can make touchdowns. And then if you, if you.

Terry Pluto (15:29.154)

mean, they don’t even have a, don’t, who is their number two receiver? I don’t even know.

David Campbell (15:32.913)

I don’t know, like nobody has stepped up into that role. And then again, I don’t know where they’re going to play him or how much they’re going to play him on each side of the ball, but this is a guy on defense who can play man defense and create interceptions. And the Browns certainly did not have many interceptions last season. So that’s what they need. And I think this is, this is an incredible athlete that I think would, would fit. And I know there’s a lot of people who think they should take a quarterback at that number two spot, but I, I going back to the Jimmy Haslam comment.

Terry Pluto (15:35.342)

Yeah.

David Campbell (16:02.159)

I keep thinking about it. His phrase was what we took a big swing and a miss when we went for Deshaun Watson. I think the Browns are out of the big swing and miss business. I think they’re going back to like, we’re going to pick good football players and we’re going to put them on the field and let’s, let’s roll with it and let’s not reach. and these, the, the quarterbacks at the top of this draft that I’m seeing on mock drafts, neither of them are rated in the top.

Terry Pluto (16:12.364)

Well, especially... Yeah.

David Campbell (16:27.535)

of the first round in most years and they’re up there because of the two best guys and quarterbacks are a premium position. And I just don’t think, I think the Browns are tired of reaching and swinging and missing. So they’re going to go with dependable. We know this guy can play and we’re going to take him and put them out there. So that’s kind of where I’m at. don’t know.

Terry Pluto (16:45.24)

I if you go back and look at, some people say well Stefanski hasn’t had good receivers in his offense. Well what about Amari Cooper?

I mean, he came in and he had his best years, with, you know, let me see. and, I think it was, I would go, it wasn’t last year, 23 and 22. I think a thousand yards receiving both years. and he had it with Flacco. I mean, he only, you know, he, I just think that that guy, that guy being a hunter, you,

will regret not taking him.

David Campbell (17:30.565)

Yeah, players like him don’t come around real often, so.

Terry Pluto (17:32.49)

No, you know, if there were, if there were a lot of drops to go with that, I would feel differently. If there were a lot of off the field issues, I would feel differently. he obviously has to be reasonably intelligent because he made academic all American his major is anthropology and minor in psychology. And he had to be able to grasp, all these football stuff on both sides of the ball and coaches, could argue.

I do, they make it too complex. I mean, so they don’t simplify the game enough for these guys. I just believe you put Stefanski together with Hunter and even sort of an average quarterback. I mean, you could, you could see some sizzle, especially given the fact they do have Jerry Judy. Who by the way, you know, turns out, Barry finally nailed this receiver that he wanted. He’s been looking for them on the draft and looking for.

them via trade, Elijah Moore, know that, well, maybe that’s the guy and this would be another one. But it’s funny how, how people are like everywhere I go, a repair, I was stopped at a house of a, of a, fact, there’s Amanda Rabinowitz’s house to drop off something for her from that Roberta hat and the guy who’s a repairman there. So I’m going to go, who the Browns taking it number two? I mean, everywhere I go, who they taking it number two?

David Campbell (18:55.707)

Hahaha.

Terry Pluto (18:59.278)

Or my pastor friend of mine, Chuck Myricks, I saw him before a service. He’s at Arlington Church of God. And he, he, is like 10 minutes before the service comes over to me goes, Oh, you know, it’s going to be, uh, Abdul Carter and then walked away. So I guess he had a vision from God or something. I don’t know, but that was really funny. And I, and of course that is the, the charm of the draft when you’re drafting high is, is this these discussions. Um,

And I’m not going to get into 15 scenarios of trades and that kind of stuff. And I’m a little afraid if you, you draft, you trade down, you know, you’re going to trade down probably far enough to pick up 100.

David Campbell (19:44.657)

All right, so let’s stay on the draft here, Terry. We do have an email from Lieutenant Colonel John T. Stambo, Stam, Lieutenant Stam writes us and he says, Mr. Pluto, why isn’t there more talk of the Browns possibly drafting Will Howard? Thank you very kindly. Thanks for the email, Lieutenant Colonel. I’m just wondering, like, I was just gonna say, yeah, Will Howard, sometimes we see players come through, Terry, and they have better NFL careers than they did college careers.

Terry Pluto (19:52.491)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (20:04.802)

Go ahead, you lead off.

Terry Pluto (20:13.688)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (20:14.477)

And I think Will Howard could be one of those guys. I think he was playing his best football at the end of that college football playoff. And I think he made himself some money and moved up some draft boards in NFL draft rooms. he’s, he, you he went from Kansas state to Ohio state and kind of went to Ryan Day finishing school. And I think his best football is ahead of him. I could see him starting sometime. I don’t know that a team will invest a high pick in him, but I think he could have a really good like 10 year NFL career.

Terry Pluto (20:22.968)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (20:44.081)

What do think?

Terry Pluto (20:46.222)

Oh yes, absolutely that he could play a long time. Um, he won me over in the, um, March the title. I mean, he played the best teams along the way and played extremely well. Now he had these great receivers and that, but you still have to get on the ball and, there, and you know, third round, fourth round. Sure. I mean, I have no problems adding, you know,

David Campbell (21:08.337)

You know what?

Terry Pluto (21:10.648)

Bring them all in. I’m serious. Say you get Jackson Dart or something and you want to bring in Wilhauer too, pick it, fine, whatever. Load it up.

David Campbell (21:18.673)

Yeah, do. Why isn’t he going to be drafted higher? I want to tell you kind of my theory on that. If you watch his tape from the season, you know, he reminded me, remember when Dante Culpepper was the quarterback of the Vikings and Randy Moss was in his prime and Randy Moss would be open by five or six yards and Dante Culpepper would throw him the ball down the field. And I feel like there were a lot of plays like that between Jeremiah Smith and Will Howard this year where he didn’t, he didn’t get, he got the ball to him, but it wasn’t perfect.

Terry Pluto (21:29.036)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (21:36.727)

Yeah.

David Campbell (21:48.079)

And I just think that when NFL teams look at his film, it got, it did get better as the season went along. I probably am under appreciating what he did put on film, but I just felt like sometimes guys were so wide open that he wasn’t, he didn’t have to make a great throw to have it be completed. And I think teams are going to want to see that precision and that arm strength really get refined before they’re going to invest a, you know, high, higher pick on him. But like I said, I think you could have a really good NFL career. Tough.

Terry Pluto (22:12.75)

And the nice thing about him, he’s got good size. Obviously he was tough and after the Michigan game, he came back and played the best football probably of his life in the games that meant the most. So that tells you that he probably has the mindset to survive in the NFL. there isn’t anyone saying take him in the first or second round. I’m going watch somebody come up and grab him in the second round.

I’m just starting to look at some Jackson Dart stuff. Have you looked at that at all? Yeah. I don’t know what to say about that yet. So that’s.

David Campbell (22:44.891)

Just a little.

David Campbell (22:51.643)

Yeah. You know, Tim Bealick, our colleague has done a lot on Jackson Dart. And one of the things he wrote, I think a week or two ago was that Jackson darts for, think we might’ve talked about this, Terry, that his fourth quarter performance, his numbers don’t match up with other good quarterbacks who’ve come out of the draft. Tim thinks that that fourth quarter, just lack of precision and kind of killer instinct might hurt him a little bit in terms of where he gets taken.

Terry Pluto (23:02.956)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (23:17.637)

But we’ll see. It’s just one part of his game, obviously, but I thought that was an interesting thing that Tim honored.

Terry Pluto (23:21.196)

I mean, he plays in sort of that junk offense with Lane Kiffin, right? and I, now that’s one of the things I’ll say for Sanders. could see Sanders easily playing as Stefanski’s offense under center play action, all that stuff. I will, I was looking at a, a tape of Greg Cosell, you know, I think he’s Howard Cosell’s nephew or something, but he’s been like at the quarterback tape guru for years and years. And he mentioned something.

David Campbell (23:36.272)

Definitely.

Terry Pluto (23:51.654)

on Sanders that I saw, it didn’t put it together is that, and this is something to Sean Watson would do and Johnny Menzel too. He was say they fall back backwards. And there was a getting up the, the pocket here comes the pressure. They don’t run this way. The side just keep running back. And the next thing you know, you’re 20 some yards behind the line of scrimmage and it’s chaos. And he said, that will be something you got to get them out of now. Sanders seems.

Like a bright young man. And I think with tape and, really would have better line because that line was bad, but he said he also made the line look worse by doing that because linemen do not like when you’re just scattered all over the place. I mean, that was, that was the thing that was also being said. And I wrote it there to the lineman wouldn’t go on the record, but about the Sean, they didn’t know what the heck he was doing there. And he had lost his poise. Uh, I mean, that’s one thing, even though Jamus.

through touchdowns, the lime, mean, through touchdowns and through two touchdowns to both teams. put it that way. he still get in the pocket and they knew where he was and they felt they could protect him. and that’s a key, key component. It’s fascinating to listen to these football guys. Cause I, I’ll say, I say it almost every week. It’s not my game. It’s not my strength. It’s, know, basketball and baseball one, maybe one’s one a one beat. That’s like number four.

I mean, I really struggle on this because there’s so many moving parts to it. Baseball is fun because you could isolate different plays, different matchups. Basketball to an extent. mean, football, I mean, how much is Deshawn running around back there because he’s lost confidence? How much is it he just doesn’t know how to play anymore because he sat out? Whatever it was.

You know, I do think Sanders could be, as he said, quote, coached out of that and be effective, but it’s like he would. Yeah. Right. And they, and they should have put them in the move more. and I remember one game I’m watching, I think it was BYU with him and he’s taking a pounding again. I’m like, will you guys throw some screen passes? I mean, Shermer’s calling the place he’s been around cause some screen passes.

David Campbell (25:55.441)

a lot of it was that offensive line right Terry like he was he was sacked a lot and a lot of them weren’t his fault where

Terry Pluto (26:15.074)

I mean, heck, call a screen to Travis Hunter. mean, anything. Just get the heat off of this guy. And they never did. I don’t know what, I haven’t even really looked at Cam Ward because I just figured he’s not going to be in the discussion. Did you see him at all or anything?

David Campbell (26:32.955)

Yeah, I’ve watched a fair amount of him and I think what teams really like about him is that he’s got a better arm than Sanders. And I also think the off-platform stuff, kind of the Mahomesian stuff where, where plays are breaking down and he’s throwing sidearm stuff to into tight windows. So yeah, I think he’ll be fine. again, everything I’ve seen is both of these quarterbacks are just not matching up to what we saw on last year’s class. so.

Terry Pluto (26:42.676)

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Terry Pluto (26:46.787)

Thank

Terry Pluto (26:59.982)

I mean, I was totally wrong on my homes because I just saw a guy with to me all out of control and all this stuff. So I remember talking to John Dorsey was just, he and I was after the practice or something. And we got on the subject of my homes. And I said to him, uh, I told him why I just said there, said, yeah, he would take a great athlete, but I didn’t know what he was doing. He was just firing them all over the place. He’s in a conference for nobody defended. He said, you could see that in the tape. said, but we saw there, see, but the big thing he said, when we brought him in.

And Andy Reed and I, and I think Ballard was the GM or something, you know, because they had like two, guys in the front. They put them on the whiteboard and Andy went to work on, you know, this is the display. This he said he was so smart and caught on right away. He goes, we’re looking at each other going there. Just, this is just the beginning for this guy because you know, the, the personality and this C Sanders may have that too, you know, where you, get there, you get working with them.

And I’m sure they’ve done that already. And then you say, okay, he’s about the right stuff, you know, personally off the field, you know, yeah, Sanders comes off a little cocky, but like, this is the world now. I’m not worried about that stuff. and, say you could, you could, you could go with them, but that, that struck me too. See, these are things that these guys know and see that we don’t, of course, these guys make seemingly as many errors as we do.

I I, you know, I, I joked about in my newsletter that you’re, you’re talking to a guy in the 2018 draft, right? Josh Rosen, the best quarterback in the draft. Thank you very much. But what the heck? And Arizona took, think took him 10th. what, you know.

David Campbell (28:34.299)

Hey, we’ve all been there.

David Campbell (28:40.901)

Yeah, but we’re not paid to get the decisions right. We’re just paid to analyze.

Terry Pluto (28:43.318)

Yeah, I mean, I went back and looked. had, I had Rosin one, I had Allen number two, I had Baker three, I had Darnold a distant four, and I didn’t even really rate Lamar Jackson because I just, I followed everybody else as well. He’s not going to go in the first round, this kind of thing. So I just didn’t do any work on it. Well, the only guy who did was Ozzy Newsome. So there you go. How about that? So

You go to all these guys, all this tape, all this money. And then you are, you’re arguing with who’s a better quarterback. guy that supposedly was drafted too high out of Wyoming, who apparently he only completed like 57 % of his passes. That was, that was a bit of an alarming thing because they like the higher percentage of sixties or the guy that some, some people said he’d be better off being a wide receiver. I mean, just to show you, I see, you know, and I think his feeling was.

David Campbell (29:33.649)

And as you knew some new, he did.

Terry Pluto (29:39.956)

If nothing else, what a dynamic player. I could do something with him. And it’s almost like what we’re talking about Hunter. What a dynamic player. And by the way, Lamar had all the off field stuff too. That was good. You know, it all checked all the boxes. You know, why do I not want this dynamic player?

David Campbell (29:58.851)

And I think you’re right, think that’s what the Browns will be saying about Travis Hunter. I kind of expect it to go that way. But hey, who knows? It’s the draft. So all right, I know, Terry, you’ve been looking into some Kenny Pickett stuff with Sam Darnold. And you want to kind of get into all that Gino Smith, right?

Terry Pluto (30:00.386)

Yeah. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (30:05.837)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (30:10.114)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (30:14.858)

Yeah. If you go into a lot of the stats, for those guys, and I’m not gonna there, you could look up my column, but basically Sam Darnold with I think three different teams and Gino Smith, their numbers were awful before they had their revivals, more interceptions than touchdowns by far. in terms of Darnold, he was turnover pronged, made a lot of fumbles in that Smith. was just a feeling he was kind of immature.

Not very good. We’re picket. You know, you look at there, I mean, had 15 touchdowns compared to only 14 interceptions and 25 stars. The interception thing is, is good with it, but the TDs you would have liked more, but overall his, you know, his percentage completion percentage was better. I think he had six come from behind wins, which is pretty good. So, and by the way, if you’re the Browns.

DTR and a fifth round pick or whatever. You do that for Kenny Pickett all day. You could probably put them in the game. And essentially if my coach likes them, I’m talking like Andrew Berry. And I think the coach liked them. And so they, you know, they were shopping that number one thing they wanted to do before the draft was a reclamation project quarterback, you know, be it Kenny Pickett, Joe Flacco, take your pick, any of those guys. they did not want to go into the dark room with Aaron Rodgers. Will Aaron Rodgers ever come out?

David Campbell (31:43.281)

Who knows? That’s right. You got me thinking here, Terry, about like these Mary Kay Cabot, our colleague, has been all over these top 30 visits that the Browns get. I want to make a quick point. Like sometimes I think fans look at these top 30 visits and they’re like, why are the Browns talking to this guy? Why are they talking to that guy? They’re not going to get him. He won’t be there. But these top 30 visits, and you were talking about this with the Chiefs and Mahomes and everything, but they might

Terry Pluto (31:43.982)

They’ll pick the next pope before Aaron Rodgers makes his decision.

Terry Pluto (31:57.272)

Yeah.

David Campbell (32:13.039)

really connect with a guy and you get to invite 30 draftable players to your facility to visit. But you might sign him as a free agent in three years because you’re like, we had a great visit with this guy and we think he’d be a great culture fit here. And it’s like, this is the beginning of our, it’s the start of a relationship and you might not, like the Browns might’ve interviewed Kenny Pickett when he was coming out and that’s where that started. like a few years later, he’s available now he’s on the team.

Terry Pluto (32:14.744)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (32:19.49)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (32:25.91)

Yeah, exactly.

Terry Pluto (32:38.734)

And they did, they said they did a lot of work on him back then. Um, and that, you know, that, that could be, that’s exactly what it could be. And I’m, uh, you know, I mean, somebody along the line wanted Sam Darnold in Minnesota, even though they had drafted, um, um, McCarthy and, you know, they, they, they said that, so, um, you know, there we, you know, they’ve had them in the building and, and before, and

So I’m looking to see, you know, as we’re talking on some of these things. All right. Sam Darnall before Minnesota had a record of 21 and 35. He had 63 TD passes compared to 56 interceptions. And he was, you know, really just, you know, turnover prone and all that. And of course he goes to Minnesota, 35 TDs, 12 interceptions, 102 quarterback rating.

You know that kind of thing. And then the other you look at Gino Smith. He was 11 and 18. How about this 25 touchdown passes 34 interceptions with the Jets. I mean those things. Those are really awful numbers.

David Campbell (33:56.985)

It’s a jet stat.

Terry Pluto (33:59.566)

Yeah, and that’s what they say. Now some of Donald bounced with a couple other teams too and. Now I mean, I heard Greg Coel, by the way, that tape on Sanders. He compared him to Geno Smith.

He said the Geno Smith, he said the Gino, yeah, the Gino Smith now, you know, not the Gino set that the judge direct, but, Donald really, he had, you know, he had problems. He, you know, cause he bounced around, Minnesota wasn’t going to play him either. They just kind of took him in and now he’s a hundred million dollar player for Seattle, which sent Gino Smith to the Raiders.

David Campbell (34:16.241)

think the moral of story, Terry, is don’t play for the Jets.

David Campbell (34:42.843)

It all worked out. So that’s some great comparison there. And I think it’s some good perspective for Browns fans. cool. All right. Anything else football, Terry? Draft, otherwise? All right. All right. We’ll take a quick break here to pay some bills. And when we come back, we are going to get into the Guardians. And we got an email wondering how worried you are, Terry, about some different parts of the team. We’ll get into that and more when we return on Terry’s Talking.

David Campbell (37:15.387)

Okay, we’re back on Terry’s talking. Terry, congratulations are in order. You have been named a third place winner in the national headliner awards for sports commentary by an individual, I believe was the category. Congratulations. That’s a really competitive contest.

Terry Pluto (37:30.828)

Yeah, it’s been nice. think I’ve placed the last four years, first through third in that contest. So that’s good. And it’s on your current work. It’s not just because you’ve been around a long time. So we’ll give you an award. I’m glad about that. But then again, I have a great boss and editor. How’s that work?

David Campbell (37:51.612)

I’m not taking any of the credit. This was this was all on you. So And I did want to mention we mentioned Terry’s newsletter earlier in the podcast if you do want to sign up and subscribe go to cleveland.com slash Pluto There’s a blue bar at the top and it will take you right to where you need to go. So

Terry Pluto (37:53.086)

Yeah, well, yeah, but if I screw up, you would probably get the blame. What did you let him write that for? Did anybody look at it before it went out? I mean...

David Campbell (38:14.065)

Okay, Terry, the Guardians are five and six as they head into this afternoon’s game. We’re taping this, well, they’re starting in about 10 minutes. We’re taping this around one o’clock on Thursday against the White Sox. The Guardians are one and a half games out of first behind the Detroit Tigers who have been playing really well of late. We got kind of a good email here from Neil and Akron. Neil’s long time listener. I thought it might be good way to get us started on the Guardians here. says, hey, Terry.

The Guardians are five and six so far in the 25 season. It’s a small sample size and history tells us they are typically not very good in April, but how is your panic level so far in the following areas with zero being no panic at all and 10 being I’m breathing into a paper bag panicked. So his five areas are the starting pitching, John Kenzie-Noel, Gabriel Arias defensively.

I should say Arias. I’m sorry about that. Tristan McKenzie out of the bullpen and the back end of the offensive lineup. He says, I picked these five areas where there has to be improvement if they want to make it deep into October again. Thanks as always guys. So I guess we can just run through those real quickly. Yeah. Okay.

Terry Pluto (39:18.028)

Let’s stop for a moment about the start. I thought the 8-2 start last year with the new manager after Francona leaving and the bullpen being elite almost from the first game was critical to setting the tone for the season. Now, a lot of things could go wrong, but the bullpen and then sort of playing the guards wall style, which Tito has started.

earlier, know, run a hard hour on everything, take extra bases. it really enabled them to just kind of get an identity and get it going. And I think that’s where, Volt was going when he made the comment that we’re still trying to find our identity. I think they kind of know what it’s supposed to be. Yeah. They always talk about quote winning in the margins, which means you don’t make a bunch of errors. You’ve take the extra base, all that stuff. Well, they’ve been making a bunch of errors.

they have not been particularly daring on the basis. and that’s, and you can catch on and, know, baseball such a long season. mean, look at what the Tigers did last year where they completely reinvented themselves after the all-star break. And they were having bullpen games like three out of every five games as a bullpen game, know, Tarek Subal and 14 bullpen games as sort of the strategy. And it worked.

But it’s hard to do and I would like to these guys just start playing better ball. Thank goodness the White Sox are here. They’ve handed them two wins.

David Campbell (40:54.683)

Yeah, especially last night. So anyway, in terms of panic level starting pitching on a zero to 10, how do you feel about that?

Terry Pluto (40:56.952)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (41:01.226)

It’s sort of like what I thought it would be up and down, you know, five, I don’t know, something. What about you?

David Campbell (41:06.905)

Okay. I think it’s really early. think five is about right. It’s a long season. John Kenzie Noel, what do you think of him so far? Zero to 10. Panic.

Terry Pluto (41:17.302)

He reminds me of the little league kid who like their times when he said plate, I’m swinging at the next pitch no matter what, because he gets excited and they know they could throw that put pitch six to eight inches outside. And if he’s in one of those, I’m swinging at the next pitch, especially when down in the count. he does. And you know, when you go all the way back to.

September 1st of last year and I can’t remember from September 1st through the playoffs, it either batted 098 or like 112. Either way, it was awful. The only home run after September 1st was the big one in the playoffs that we all remember. So I think that there’s a problem there.

David Campbell (42:02.385)

All right, what about Arias defensively, zero to 10?

Terry Pluto (42:06.604)

Well, anybody that plays second after Andres, you know, good luck with that. He’s had one or two things where I thought he was in a great position or whatever, but I’m not going to beat him up on that.

David Campbell (42:18.609)

I think getting better though. It seems like game by game. Yeah, yeah. All right, Tristan McKenzie, zero to 10.

Terry Pluto (42:20.494)

Yeah, that’s, mean, I’m not going to get him. Yeah. I’m not going to, not going to beat them up on that.

Lost poor guys lost. I mean that last outing was. He either was bouncing the ball or throwing it nearly over the batter’s head. And I, you know, we remember we had a discussion last week because he finally had a good inning and you were kind of thinking, dreaming of getting him the rotation. I was like preaching the bullpen cure. You know, a triple that bullpen vaccine for him. That’s why he needs. I’m not saying you couldn’t revive himself.

But there was something just fundamentally messed up with him on that. it’s a major concern. Really, if he didn’t have, the only reason he’s here is because he’s out of minor league options. That’s it. I mean, he really needs to go to the minors and pitch. Maybe they’ll put him on waivers and send them down anyway. Somebody else takes them fine.

David Campbell (43:19.333)

Yeah, every day is a decision they have to think about there and what they’re going to do. So all right, then the back end of the line up, Terry, zero to 10 in terms of concern. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (43:23.788)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (43:28.814)

It’s almost always bad on this team. I’m trying to think like when it have been good. Well, guy who’s really disappointed me is Rokeo. I mean, has. Batting like 162 or 172 three years and there’s been one or two mental mistakes too. There was a ball that was hit to Carlos. This is a few games ago at first and Carlos goes to his right feels it.

He turns to throw to second. Nobody’s covering for the four south. And the ball went straight up in Carl’s his hand and it’s just, he caught it. It’s because I, he was getting ready to fire it and was in up in the outfield. But it’s like, and he could tell he was just staring and going, where are you? And these are the things the winning on the margins or losing on the margins. That by the way, Jose, you know, with five years, he made only nine last year.

His footwork’s messed up, watch it. He’s not really squaring himself. He’s kind of reaching with his feet at bad angles. I’m not sure what exactly that’s about, but.

David Campbell (44:40.667)

Yeah, it’s interesting, Terry, like usually when a team comes out of spring training, you see them do a lot of the fundamental things, right? Because they’ve been working on it for the whole, for all of spring training. so it’s a little weird to see them struggle with some of this stuff coming out, but

Terry Pluto (44:46.563)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (44:52.812)

And I, and you know, they were because they came, they did it last year with the same manager. And I’m sure he thought, wait, this is great. We’ll just do the same stuff again. But they haven’t been doing it. mean, Roquios got three years. and I think he made only 12 last year and Jose’s got five and he made nine last year. how about Jose scoring on that short pass ball or whatever it was yesterday that he’s just so good. The guy just.

David Campbell (44:57.169)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (45:21.294)

He defies description of how a guy who looks so unathletic and obviously he is, but his, know when they’ve timed his speed, it’s like average at best. And he like steals almost 35 bases to 40 a year, you know, the extra base all the time. Um, mean, they don’t win that game unless he does that.

David Campbell (45:41.029)

Yeah. Typical Jose. Always, always taking the extra base and looking for opportunities. So, all right. So Terry, I do want to ask you about kind of one of the most important topics with the guardians this week. And that’s Emmanuel class a and a Hoynsey put up a story a little while ago, like closer options for the guardians in case class a doesn’t get it together. I think I just saw that,

Terry Pluto (45:44.247)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (45:55.935)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah

David Campbell (46:07.473)

vote was talking to Tom Hamilton before today’s game and said he they asked him about class A and he says I’m looking forward to seeing him close games the rest of the season for us. They don’t seem to be publicly at least having issues but what are you seeing from class A and is this something that you think will be an issue going forward or you think he can turn it around pretty quickly? What do you think?

Terry Pluto (46:26.328)

Well, number one, if you’re a manager, your closer is your closer until he’s not. That’s it. And a lot of times a quarterback is your quarterback until he’s not. That’s sort of that because those are the two jobs, I think, where the game, it feels like the game rests on your shoulders. A lot of it is confidence. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago that I was hoping Kossay would get off to a good start because often when a guy, think I did read Honeys’ story, it’s worth looking at.

Um, that he called a play over hang up, play off hangover, you know, we’re, mean, cause I gave up two home runs of regular season three in the playoffs and I’m sure that rattled them. And I was watching him last night and usually he’s pretty stoic and amount. There are a couple of times that the ball was maybe on the outside corner, slightly outside. And he was, you could tell he was just steaming. It was very upset. And that.

I think he’s feeling it a little bit, but you just keep running them out there. the velocity is fine. There are very few swings and misses. he’s not breaking bats like he used to. Of course, one of the best broke ended up being a hit. He’s also in one of those ruts now too, where things aren’t going well and then neither is luck. although you could argue it is, but you want to see him start strong.

David Campbell (47:27.345)

Yeah, it’s, yeah, go ahead, Sam, sir.

David Campbell (47:46.181)

Yeah, and it’s early, right? It’s early.

Terry Pluto (47:53.751)

to get that momentum.

David Campbell (47:56.089)

You want me to run through some of the numbers here real quick? Okay, so six appearances so far for him. He’s got an ERA of six. Last year he gave up two home runs all year and he’s already given up one, right? So four earned runs in six innings. His whip, which is walks and hits per inning pitched, per innings pitched is 1.83. That is a career high, but I mean, it’s only six games, right?

Terry Pluto (48:03.436)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (48:07.235)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (48:20.867)

And truthfully, it’s not all I got to jump off a bridge there. It’s not that.

David Campbell (48:25.125)

Yeah. So I was kind of curious. I pulled some numbers from baseball savant and you were talking about his velocity and I just thought it was some interesting comparison here. So his four seam fastball last year averaged 100.3. So far this year, again, it’s been cold, right? And 98.2. So down, down two miles an hour. The slider last year was 91 miles an hour. And this year it’s 89.8.

Terry Pluto (48:30.382)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (48:41.076)

it is done. Okay.

Terry Pluto (48:51.564)

Everything is down two miles.

David Campbell (48:52.465)

The cutter was 99.5 last year and this year it’s 99. So that’s about the same. And his sinker came in at a hundred miles an hour last year. And this year it’s coming in at 98.8. So he’s losing, you know, one or two miles an hour on some of these pitches. And then I thought this was really interesting, Baseball somewhat tracks vertical movement of pitches. And I thought this might shed a little bit light, but you’ve talked about this in the past and you hear this phrase sometimes.

Terry Pluto (49:05.614)

tomorrow.

Terry Pluto (49:14.146)

There we go.

David Campbell (49:21.947)

pitchers having their pitches flatten out, right? But last year, when you look at class a sinker, it was dropping like five inches vertically during 2024. And I pulled the baseball savant chart. It’s, it’s only dropping two and a half inches so far this year. And a similar thing is happening with the force is happening with the force seam fastball. Last year it was, I think it was dropping around.

Terry Pluto (49:24.344)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (49:31.639)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (49:38.626)

huh.

David Campbell (49:50.095)

It looks like around 3.25 maybe, and this year it’s maybe, maybe an inch. Like if you track all four of his pitches, slider, cutter, sinker, and four seamer, I wish I could show you all of this graph, but in previous years, there was a pretty wide disparity from zero. Like there were pitches that were dropping quite a bit and it is, it’s all kind of converging this year.

Terry Pluto (50:09.656)

Well, the operative number in what you said is two. His stuff is two miles slower than a year ago and his movement is two inches less, which sounds like it shouldn’t be much, especially with a guy who throws as hard as he does. But there’s sometimes not a lot of variance in his speed.

David Campbell (50:16.112)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (50:34.307)

Right, and if you add in the lack of vertical drop, it’s basically, it looks like it’s half for the four seamer and half for the sinker of what it was last year, which is pretty dramatic.

Terry Pluto (50:42.38)

Yeah. Now that may be something fundamental they can fix. it’s not an, it’s not a, injury thing. so that’s, I have tremendous admiration for Klaus. He’s pitched so many high leverage innings as they call it and done it year after year in 23, the year he led the league in both blown saves and saves was really

A remarkable year because he never melted down, which you easily could have. You know, he fought his way through a lot of bad times. And I’m sure this is something that like say Carl Willis or whatever is telling vote right now. Cause last year you had him in regular season, him attaining Mariano Rivera. and he’s telling it now this guy is tough mentally in that. So we’ll wait to see, but you know, they do have, I mean, Gaddis has thrown wells, Kate Smith, Aaron, they’ve got options.

David Campbell (51:40.367)

Yeah, see, see, Waldo’s closed, right? Yeah.

Terry Pluto (51:42.252)

Yeah. And Seawall, Seawall strikes me, he’s probably going to be the new Brian Shaw pitch all the time. He even looks a little like Shaw, a little chunky, throws that sidearm. You know, veteran been around if he takes a pound, if he has to take a pounding in a game for the good of the team, he can handle it. he can close if need be. Yeah, they have options, but when you have Clausay as he was last year, or even as he was in say 22,

You’re going to the playoffs. See that kind of closing. You just hardly ever blow a game. And that’s with this team or whatever that that’ll that’ll help it. But I’m glad you brought this numbers up. I hadn’t done that. That was, you know, just to the I I intentionally last night I didn’t watch the game all the way through. It was kind of worn out. Went to bed in the because I taped it and I went to bed in the sixth inning. I figured I saw you got up this morning intentionally to watch Klaus.

And the stuff looked flat. It just did. So that’s, that’s, that’s what it was. Yeah.

David Campbell (52:43.291)

Yeah, and the lines are all converging towards zero on this baseball savant chart, and especially, like I said, the four seamer and the sinker.

Terry Pluto (52:49.582)

Also, he bust these guys inside, break some bats. I’m a big break some bats guy breaks them. That was last year. You would see these guys hit the ball and they’re standing in home plate. They’ve got like a six inch piece of wood in their hand. The, you know, the balls like rolling down the third baseline and the, and the barrel of bath somewhere on the first baseline. And they’re like, what happened? Um, and they, that he can do, he could bust these guys inside. think he has gotten into.

David Campbell (53:11.025)

Ha

Terry Pluto (53:17.29)

His cutter and stuff, especially right hand hitters just throw it away, throw it away, throw it away. when they, when they don’t, nobody likes a pitcher throwing nearly a hundred miles an hour coming in on their hands. They just don’t cold or warm. They don’t like it. And I don’t care if you’ve got the rocket bat, the bottle bat, by the way, my father used to tell me a long time ago, there was a thing called the bottle bat, which is sort of shaped a little like the.

David Campbell (53:30.961)

Especially when it’s cold. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (53:46.252)

The Rocket Bat, of thicker in the middle. And it got out of favor, but I don’t know whether Ty Cobb or somebody used it. That would be good to look at is the Rocket Bat, the reincarnation of the Bottle Bat.

David Campbell (53:59.753)

I have to watch that. I want to get those fat Albert bats out there that he’s there when I was a kid those big red ones with the would be good too the cork filled one. Yeah You were mentioning the end of the game last night Terry Mike Togman of the White Sox is coming around third The game is on the line and when I saw him go down, I’m like, my god, he tore his hamstring like

Terry Pluto (54:03.768)

Chad Albert. I thought you meant the Albert bat when Albert Bell corked him, you know, and the cork one. Yeah, you hate when that happens.

Terry Pluto (54:28.482)

Yeah.

David Campbell (54:29.145)

It, so this guy’s like, think he’s 34 years old and the white Sox are doing a total rebuild. And then he gets up and walks off like nothing. Like, were you surprised? I thought he was going to need help getting off the field. The game is on the line and like, you’ve got to, you’ve got to cross home plate. Like in that situation, I was flabbergasted.

Terry Pluto (54:40.129)

Yeah

Terry Pluto (54:43.534)

I thought a hamstring right away, yeah. Yeah, you crawl. yeah, and I, now we don’t know, does he have a history of hamstring problems or something like that? Okay.

David Campbell (54:59.013)

He was just coming off one, think. like with the game, like this isn’t like it’s nine nothing in the bottom of the eighth in some random game. Like the game is on the line. It’s early in the season. Like you’ve got to, you’ve got to get across home plate. can’t just, you can’t just fall down like you’ve been shot and then walk off the field like, geez, my hamstring sure feels weird. And that’s a good way. I don’t know what’s going to happen with him, but like with a team that’s turning to young players, like that is not a good look.

Terry Pluto (55:09.302)

Yeah, if not, at least walk across the plate. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (55:19.627)

Yeah.

David Campbell (55:26.956)

I’m just going to watch and see how long he’s going to be around.

Terry Pluto (55:27.084)

Yeah, well, there, there, there’s, there’s such a man. mean, thank goodness. The entire Dolan ownership never had to go through this a hundred losses and all this stuff. That was one of their marching orders that they’ve had the whole 20 some years is we will not lose a hundred and some games. Certainly by design. And I mean,

Tom Hamilton, I was talking to him briefly the other day and he goes, do you realize if the White Sox improve by 20 games, they’ll still lose 101.

David Campbell (56:04.571)

That is an incredible stat.

Terry Pluto (56:04.718)

Because you know how hard it is. He’s right. In, in, in just about any season to improve 20 wins is really hard. Even if you’re like, you know, 60 and, and one Oh two, you know, that means you go 80 and 82. mean, it’s hard. It’s just amazing how, how it goes. By the way, I ran into Steve Stone, you know, he’s sort of brush high in Cleveland and fished it can’t, he was there talking to him and.

Of we started doing Earl Weaver stories. I’ll spare people with that. he was saying, you know, he’s 78 years old. How about that? I mean, look at him. Yeah. And it was, he won a hundred and some games. You know, he’s five foot nine or something. He’s like my size. Cause we were talking about, they would never sign him now. He didn’t throw exceptionally hard. I mean, he probably threw 90, 91, which is pretty good for back then. But he goes, yeah, they would just ignore me.

David Campbell (56:36.485)

Hahaha!

David Campbell (56:41.659)

Some career. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (57:03.116)

You know, guy won 106 games in the majors or whatever it was.

David Campbell (57:06.833)

Yeah, and then a decade, three or four decades long career as a broadcaster. And yeah, it’s Chicago legend.

Terry Pluto (57:11.094)

Yeah, I a Cy Young Award with Weaver one year and okay, I brought it up, but just a fact. and it just, you know, you, you just look at that and he was just saying how, and he’s been a big advocate too of the, the, the injuries with so much emphasis on spin rates and all that other stuff.

David Campbell (57:17.125)

Yeah.

David Campbell (57:32.913)

All right, well the Guardians are wrapping this series up as we speak. Well, in 10 minutes, they’re gonna be starting at 1.30 finishing the series with the White Sox, yeah.

Terry Pluto (57:39.502)

All right. Couple things I saw on the Guardian. Just looking at that. Carlos Santana, usually who certainly has never been Mr. April. He’s not even Mr. May. 286 he’s hitting. We’ve got a couple of homers. Now the one year he did this was when they traded for him to come back. I want to say it was 2019 and he made the All-Star team because that was the same year I think the All-Star game was in Cleveland.

David Campbell (57:42.768)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (58:08.79)

And that was also the year that Cookie Carrasco had the leukemia. But he started hot and stayed hot all year. I’ll say this, he is good at first. Boy, he’s picked some balls out of the dirt and that. so interesting thing, another thing to look at. All right, Dave Campbell, who leads the guardians in drawing walks?

David Campbell (58:33.328)

Man, I’m just gonna guess Stephen Kwan.

Terry Pluto (58:38.808)

Kyle Manzardo at seven. You know, and he’s only hitting 222, but he’s got an 889 OPS. You know, he’s drawn walks that I think he’s never going to hit for like a really high average, but he’s going to get on base. He’s going to hit doubles and some homers. Well, how do you like the platoon of big Christmas and, and Nolan Jones?

David Campbell (58:40.101)

Wow, okay.

David Campbell (59:01.521)

I don’t know.

Terry Pluto (59:03.534)

question are they batting more than a hundred together dot dot yes six first forty seven I didn’t bother to figure it out but it’s over a hundred and so that’s those are just a couple things there by the way I was wondering why they had Jonathan Rodriguez on the team if they finally figured out they were wondering why they did too and they sent him out and see on how Martinez is much better fit for these guys

David Campbell (59:07.654)

Yes.

Terry Pluto (59:30.862)

play the outfield, play the infield. He was sitting 344, a triple A. And then I want to bring up too, you know, cause now a couple of people were talking about, I mean, I miss, I miss him and as a second base, cause he’s just, he’s just tremendous. And he got off to a hot start with Toronto hitting, but you know, it, it, did catch up to him and

Although my last thing he’s down to 220 now. He’s had three home runs. So you go and you go not part of the reason they made the trade. What big part was the money, but also one, you know, they wanted Ortiz. They really did. And he looked better. He really did. That looked like the guy six innings. I think he gave up three runs. He walked one or none. That’s the guy that was with Pittsburgh last year. Not the guy that was like walking everybody all over the place. And then you go and you look at below and you know,

But the guy, know, people listen to this for a while know that Juan Brito is my guy and Brito was sitting 345 at AAA. I mean, they could easily, you know, if things go and Arias has problems or I wouldn’t do this, but if Rokeo really continues not to hit and play poor defensively, he’s got minor league options. I mean, you could put Brito at second and Arias at short. You could do that. You do a lot of different things.

I think Brie, I’ll just, I was talking to a couple of people cause I didn’t, that’s when my, my, my mom passed away. So I canceled the trip to spring training, but I talked to some people down there he said, actually, Brie just started to hit like better at the plate the last week. He goes, he was just pressing. it was the first time he was in camp where he had any chance at all to make the team. And basically I was told, just ignore it. we think, you know, we w there was a reason they tried to form. There was a reason baseball America made them the,

2023 Cleveland organization player of the year. He hit 24 homers and he had 40 doubles and AAA last year at the age of 22. I mean, it’s in him in other words, and just wait.

David Campbell (01:01:44.337)

Yeah, and usually like middle end of May, start to see they have some options at a lot of different positions here that they can go to. So which is a good thing. So, okay. I mentioned they’re playing the White Sox today and then Friday through Sunday, they were playing the Kansas city Royals at home. The guardians are off Monday and then a six game road trip to Baltimore and Pittsburgh. And then the Yankees, man MLB keeps scheduling the Yankee series here in April, which I know fans are not happy about, but that’ll be April 21 through 23rd. So the Yankees will be in town. So.

Terry Pluto (01:01:47.084)

Yeah, yeah they do.

Terry Pluto (01:01:58.104)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (01:02:11.662)

you

David Campbell (01:02:14.321)

Alright, the Cavaliers are kind of in coasting mode as they head into the playoffs. They did lock up the number one seed in the Eastern Conference for the playoffs, which is important. And Jimmy Watkins, our colleague, I think he had this stat in his column yesterday. In game seven of NBA Playoffs series, the home team is 112 and 39. So, yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:02:17.198)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:02:34.124)

Yeah, generally 70, 73 % or something like that they went. It’s been that way when I covered it hasn’t changed. I don’t mean to cut off Jimmy’s thing, but that’s go ahead. Yeah, it’s tried and true that hasn’t changed much over the years.

David Campbell (01:02:42.661)

No, that’s what it was just a stat I wanted to mention out of his column.

David Campbell (01:02:49.531)

So not a huge deal, but something good. The calves can rely on to help them through.

Terry Pluto (01:02:55.022)

Well, all right, let’s talk about the Orlando series. Remember they’re down by 18 points or something the first half and game seven at home to Orlando. And they came back and won that game. They don’t win that game in Orlando. Period. That’s it. Um, and there, I remember, um, there was a, game seven. I hope I get this right. It was in 2018 and it wasn’t the first round, I believe. Um, and I’m just guessing here, Indiana.

David Campbell (01:03:08.454)

It’s true.

Terry Pluto (01:03:24.098)

They were, the cows were on the verge of getting eliminated in the first round. They had game seven at home and they knocked off Indiana. LeBron made some great shots or something.

David Campbell (01:03:33.073)

Was that the shot on the corner that you hit at the buzzer? I’m trying to remember.

Terry Pluto (01:03:35.982)

Now that was a different one, but just, yeah, 2018 playoffs and see from right, but that was another one of those where had they been on the road, I don’t think that that could have been the end right there. So I’m big on having the home court. I mean, there’s, there’s, there are reasons for, for all that. What else?

David Campbell (01:03:58.053)

Yeah, they won seven games that year with the Pacers and they went seven games with the Celtics that year.

Terry Pluto (01:04:04.022)

Yeah. And I think they had a win, the one in Boston on the road.

That is, in my mind, LeBron’s greatest achievement here was taking that group to the finals.

because that was, that was it. What he just, he played all 82 regular season games that year and he dragged those guys into the finals almost to show Kyrie Irving. We don’t need you. I’m very serious. If you’re going to be that way, we’ll do this.

David Campbell (01:04:20.369)

That was some performance.

David Campbell (01:04:37.179)

We’re gonna do this. So, all right, we do have a, we’ve got a good Cavs email here from Alan Gilbert from Columbus. Alan’s a long time listener. says, Hey Terry, I wanted to share an observation and see if you agree. I’ve been a Cavs fan since the beginning and watching Evan Mobley develop into an elite player has been one of the most enjoyable experiences on the ride. Through all the commentary and comparisons, I’ve not heard him compared to Kevin Durant. As a Cavs fan, he reminds me of Durant because he can hurt you in so many ways.

Terry Pluto (01:04:41.272)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (01:05:01.923)

Over the years, seems like Durant has beaten the Cavs in every way imaginable. He is suffocating with both interior and perimeter defense. He scores from inside the paint, like you would expect a big man to do, but he is also accurate from the free throw line and most unexpectedly and painfully from three point range. I can’t tell you how many times I was relieved to see Durant settling quote unquote for a three point shot only to have him break my heart, hitting nothing but the net.

Much like Durant, seems like Mobley is good at everything and who knows where his ceiling is and hopefully Mobley is good at one thing that Durant was not good at, sticking with one team. What do you think? There’s been, Chris Fedor has been writing about this for a few years now about the comparison to Durant, but are you seeing kind of the same kind of trajectory? This year we’re kind of coming to the end of regular season. It’s a good time to take inventory. Go ahead.

Terry Pluto (01:05:51.198)

No, and here’s why. Because what makes all those other things are true about the overall game. But I remember watching, I just stumbled onto a Texas game when early in the season when Durant was playing and he’s six foot 11 or whatever. And now he’s like 18 or 19. He’s making all these long shots naturally. He was a natural shooter.

It was one of those, look at him, it’s a bit of a long drive, but he’s so tall, he’s shooting farther up. I mean, he was, it was like watching Mark Price shoot or something like that, where you just see a great shooter. And that is, in other words, that was the part of his game that he built on along with the other stuff. He grew more defensively in that where Evan is the opposite. Evan was rebounding, defending that, and now he’s trying to build his offense.

Usually a guy that becomes a great shooter was at least very good from the start. you don’t see too many guys that just really struggled like Evan did and then become a great outside shooter. All that said, Evan is a defensive player of the year. He’s, think he’s just going to be a perennial all-star is going to continue to get better. But when you’re talking about Durant, you’re talking about top 10 player of all time. I mean, and that’s what it was. The shooting is just so natural for him.

David Campbell (01:07:09.403)

Yeah, that’s lofty.

Terry Pluto (01:07:15.37)

And I could say that having, then I watched like one other game and it was the same thing. And I remember there was discussion by Greg Odin or Durant to be in that draft. And I think it was Portland or whatever took Odin and then, okay. See, took taste Durant. And I’m like, you guys are blowing it, man. This thing, I haven’t seen something like this. And. You know, and I’m not afraid to, mean, I’m the guy just, you know,

admitted I like Josh Rosen, so I’m not afraid to say when I’m wrong. Okay. But this case, but it wasn’t that hard. I mean, it was almost like what we were talking about Travis Hunter. You look at it go, you don’t see this. This is unique. This is special. And Durant was solid off the court. You know, there were no bad stories or anything, you know, he came out of a rough area in Baltimore, but went down to Texas and did very well. And then of course he goes to the NBA. He’s playing forever.

The thing that, you know, the sad thing to me about Durant is I think he’s a guy that maybe when it comes to like judgment on what team I want to go to, doesn’t have confidence in himself. You know, he ends up listening to Kyrie Irving and going to Brooklyn or I want to be traded or it’s just, it’s just odd. It became kind of a vagabond, as you said, towards the end of his career. I mean,

David Campbell (01:08:30.661)

Yeah, I pulled a few numbers on. So this was Mobley’s 23 year old season, right? I guess we could run through this real quick. So 18.6 points per game this season. And from three point range, he’s shooting 373. And as you said, he’s probably going to win Defensive Player of the Year, I would imagine. Kevin Durant was in Oklahoma City when he was 23. And I guess that’s another part of it too, Terry.

Terry Pluto (01:08:38.242)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (01:08:48.364)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (01:08:52.515)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (01:08:59.793)

There was a two person operation running that OKC offense with him and Russell Westbrook, right? And the Cavs are a different operation here with they’ve got a lot more guys who can score. But anyway, Kevin Durant in his 23 year old season finished second in the MVP balloting and averaged 28 points a game and which is which is something and his three point shooting percentage when he was 23 was 387. So 387 for him and 373.

Terry Pluto (01:09:05.342)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:09:27.102)

What do you shoot? What do you shoot overall?

David Campbell (01:09:29.393)

From the field his field goal percentage was 496 for Kevin Durant and it’s 560 for Evan Mobley. So yeah

Terry Pluto (01:09:34.647)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, that was, took more theories. How about rebounding?

David Campbell (01:09:42.001)

Rebounding total rebounding per game in his 23 year old season was 8.0 for Kevin Durant and for Evan Mobley. It’s 9.3 and black shots. Yeah, I think black shots is probably comparable here

Terry Pluto (01:09:47.512)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (01:09:51.874)

Yeah. See, he’s...

The only time Durant is a great defender is when he decides to be a great defender. That’s not as natural to him like Evans is. Like when he would face LeBron in those playoffs, he became a great defender. Otherwise, he was pretty good and he was great on the offensive end. And so, but it’s fun to look at that. The fact that we could even say, well, let’s compare is remarkable. It’s just absolutely remarkable.

David Campbell (01:10:22.053)

Yeah. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:10:26.072)

to see that and good for Evan sticking with it and good for the Cavs, especially Donovan Mitchell who, Donovan Mitchell has been like team psychologist for Evan and for Darius Garland, the you can do it guy. You could see how he built those two guys up, especially Darius last year when he was struggling and periodically with Evan here and Kenny.

empowered Mitchell to even do that more. And also I think when Mitchell committed to staying, then he knew that to get where he wants this team to be so he could have his legacy, those two guys got to be great too.

David Campbell (01:11:11.281)

Okay, well the Cavs are playing tonight at Indiana as they kind of head down the homestretch here then they’re at New York tomorrow in two kind of meaningless games. They close the regular season Sunday against the Pacers at home at one o’clock and we should know, a week from today on next Thursday we should have a pretty good idea who the Cavs are that’ll narrow down who they’re gonna play in the first round. Yeah, they got a way through the playing thing and the first playoff game might be on Saturday the 19th, a week from Saturday. So we will see how that all shakes out.

Terry Pluto (01:11:29.996)

That’s right, you’ve got to away through the whole play-in thing, yeah.

David Campbell (01:11:39.313)

All Terry, you were all over the Cleveland State men’s basketball search this week, and they have their man. Why don’t you talk about that for a minute and how it all happened?

Terry Pluto (01:11:46.478)

It was, I, I, I am at, look, I’m partial to, uh, mid-major basketball. just, my father used to take me to like Cleveland state games and Akron games. And I was a kid now, you know, and so I’ve always kind of followed it. It’s fun. I’ve got a lot of friends in those circles. So I always wanted to kind of, you know, wondered like what Cleveland state was going to do for a coach. And so I kind of chased it. And, uh, right away when, um, Daniel Robinson went to North, North Texas, by the way, Daniel Robinson got.

a salary of over 800 grand. It’s a job that’s really good that people don’t know about. It’s in that American conference. The previous two coaches went to Texas Tech and went to West Virginia for gigantic money. It’s a great stepping stone job. That’s why he left. Meanwhile, Cleveland State, they’re struggling through their money problems and that. But right away I heard Rob Summers. Rob Summers was the first hire by Dennis Gates. I wrote about this. I interviewed Dennis Gates and Daniel Robinson for a story this

published this morning, would be in the paper on Friday. And Rob Summers was a, they have a seven foot coach, how about that? You don’t see many of those. And he was a guy that Dennis knew he needed to get a guy that knew how to rebuild programs and help. And Summers had been at James Madison helped them. had coached in division two at Urbana and at Glendale State.

David Campbell (01:12:55.537)

Yep, big man will get some good coaching.

Terry Pluto (01:13:13.054)

One place he was an assistant, one he was a head coach. And just that he was a guy that kind of helped knew how to, as I say, go through the rummage sale and find some guys that can play. And that’s, that’s what it takes. And, his last off summers was with Dennis Gates up at Missouri. So they brought him in, and, the, but there was a rumor about Bob Huggins. was basically a token interview. I’ll just say that.

the three finalists were the other was Jay Schooner who was an assistant here with Daniel Robinson. And the third was a guy named J.R. Blount who was an assistant at Iowa State. A lot of times you say who, but I think most of us said who when Dennis Gates was hired. Most of us said who when Daniel Robinson was hired. You’ve got to find these guys in the, especially in the portal world or whatever. Being able to, it isn’t just, because it’s more like being able to.

to scout and talent evaluate, because you’re not going to outspend these guys. Even the majors are probably going to have a bigger NIL than Cleveland State. So you’ve got to find the guys that a lot of times, I remember some of the players that Cleveland State brought in were guys that were junior colleges, not because of grades, just that nobody liked them. And Dennis Gates spotted them. Gates told me when he was at Florida State, he had junior colleges and is he called diving and rough scouting on some high schools.

But he said he kept this last couple of years, cause he knew one day his time was coming to be a head coach. He kept two notebooks, a scouting notebook. One was, you know, first prime job for Leonard help Hamilton afford a state who can play any ACC all this stuff. But he says, I kept the second one. Like if I got a mid major job kind of middle of the pack, who could help me? And he went immediately into the second notebook when he got the Cleveland state job. So you need what I call second notebook guys.

Who’ve been looking, you know, at it through the eye and where Rob Summers would know that because I’m sure Dennis Gates told me that story. I’m sure he told Rob Summers that story. They probably went through the notebook together and I bet Summers was doing the same thing. This is not the game has changed so much. I mean, some people talked about high school coaches or somebody like Bob Huggins who 71 or not at places like Cleveland State. This is a young man’s game who really has to understand what’s going on out there.

Terry Pluto (01:15:35.628)

And then finally, another coach is telling me this, that because of the transfer portal, other than the elite junior college players, you know, they’re getting their money, but a lot of like good junior college players who would have had higher offers, higher level offers are not getting them because people are so fixated on the transfer portal. And that might be a place that Cleveland State can do some good business because...

They gotta do it the hard way there and you need a guy that’s done it the hard way and he was there for three years. He knows how it works.

David Campbell (01:16:13.135)

Yeah, they’ve had a run of some 21 seasons here and something I find interesting, Terry, and we, think we were kind of talking about this with the top 30 visits, but Rob Summers, I think you wrote that he interviewed for the job when Gates got it, right? And sometimes people get hired and

Terry Pluto (01:16:17.1)

Yes.

Terry Pluto (01:16:25.326)

Yeah, he did. No, I’m sorry. No, he interviewed it for one. Daniel Robinson got it. Cause yeah. Yeah.

David Campbell (01:16:31.089)

That’s what I meant. I’m sorry when Robinson got it and didn’t get it that time. But a lot of times when you interview people and they don’t get the job, again, it comes around. Like you have that relationship built and you’re like, this could be a good person for us. I think that’s how the Steelers got Mike Tomlin. I think Mike Tomlin interviewed for the job when they gave it to Bill Cower. And then when Cower retired, they went back to him.

Terry Pluto (01:16:39.618)

Yeah. Well, yeah, sure.

Terry Pluto (01:16:48.256)

This is why, by the way, I’ve never minded that rule, the Rooney rule, because sometimes, forces you to talk to somebody, maybe you wouldn’t. And perhaps this guy isn’t somebody you hire as a head coach, but you might think, man, I would love that that guy is my coordinator. I might, you know, where you get to see somebody else that’s out of your regular circle. And to carry it further,

Daniel Robinson actually hired for the job when Gates got it and Scott Garrett was the AD then, but he, had his notebook too. And so when Gates left, you know, he called Daniel Robinson Robinson was like at the top of the list. think in the same way, Summers was not easy interview other people, but to your point, they saw him or it’s not a stranger coming in.

David Campbell (01:17:42.395)

Yeah, you already know what they’re all about from the first time. So, all right. Well, thanks for all your reporting on that, Terry. I know it was a pretty fast turnaround from the time Daniel Robinson left to the higher and you did some great reporting there. So really well done. So, okay. We have an email to wrap up with here. Sound good? Okay. We asked a while back for opening day memories and we didn’t get to all of them. We got a couple that came in late and this was one of them from Tim Abraham and Tim’s from Canfield, Ohio.

Terry Pluto (01:18:02.083)

Yes.

David Campbell (01:18:11.185)

And he says, Hey, Terry, I thought I would share my reminiscences regarding 1975 opening day to the best of my ability to recall that far off time. I was in 10th grade at Niles McKinley and we had a home JV baseball game that day. It was really cold. I snuck a radio into school that day as I had in ninth grade at the junior high school, WBBW 1240 in Youngstown. The main advertisers I remember being Stroh’s Beer and the Elmton Pizza and Chicken.

Terry Pluto (01:18:38.998)

Hahaha!

David Campbell (01:18:39.899)

They’re both in business still. This was in the days before Backpack, so it wasn’t easy sneaking in the radio. had a study hall during the last period of school when the game would be starting. We were in the large auditorium, so I could hopefully be inconspicuous. I believe I was down in the front row when Frank Robinson hit his home run. I remember spreading the news to friends who were close enough to alert them. Everyone was excited. There was a buzz amongst our team after class and on the bench during the game.

Terry Pluto (01:18:56.878)

Yeah.

David Campbell (01:19:07.021)

Unfortunately, we had to focus on the game and didn’t know the details until after our game. So thanks for that, Tim. So you know what we could do? could, anybody who’s listening who wants to send in stories about sneaking your radio somewhere to keep track of a game back in the day, that might be fun. I know a lot of kids back, used to sneak radios into bed so they could listen to the game late at night. Or if you snuck one into school, that might be fun to hear some emails about. ever sneak your radio in anywhere, Terry?

Terry Pluto (01:19:20.589)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:19:26.19)

Mm-hmm.

Terry Pluto (01:19:33.838)

No, but I had like a little radio in my room at night. And if I wasn’t listening to tribe games, I was listening to WJR, the great voice of the great lakes, I had Detroit and Ernie Howell doing the Tigers. And for that, the Tigers always kind of became my backup team. that’s like, I so enjoyed like when Cleveland played the Tigers in this last playoffs, it’s like, you know, I can’t hate these guys. I mean, they’re kind of like us, you know, this is

David Campbell (01:19:48.152)

yeah.

Terry Pluto (01:20:01.73)

how it is and they trash on, know, they knocked off somebody, I forgot who they’ve eaten the first round. was Baltimore, somebody good. And it was, I didn’t want them to be Cleveland, but I’m just saying I just enjoyed the vibe up there and then here. so, and it goes back to listening to Ernie Harwell under the, you know, and I didn’t have to put it in a pillow because I had my own room because my brother by then was already out and about, he’s 10 years older and yeah.

David Campbell (01:20:31.108)

Awesome.

Terry Pluto (01:20:31.406)

There’s still something, here’s the remarkable thing about technology. All this changed. Baseball on the radio is still one guy talking to microphone telling you what he’s seeing. Not on TV with all the other, you know, different graphics and everything else. It’s Tom Hamilton or Jim Rosenhouse or Ernie Harwell or Herb Scor or Joe Tate, whoever your guy is telling you.

I think he’s losing it out there, they better go get him out of the game. Or, know, no, not this umpire or whatever it may be. And usually that guy was very well connected with the manager and would bring real insight. But the technology has, they haven’t figured out a better way to do it on the radio other than get a great guy to do it on the radio.

David Campbell (01:21:23.589)

Yeah, not many things haven’t changed over the last hundred years and that’s one of them. I never thought about that like that way. That’s a great one.

Terry Pluto (01:21:29.422)

They can’t replace them with AI. I don’t care what the AI says.

David Campbell (01:21:32.769)

That’s right. All right. I think we’re good. You got anything else you want to mention Terry? All right, I if you have any stories about sneaking radios into places or other fun sports stories comments on the podcast questions Hit us at sports at cleveland.com. Just put Terry’s talking in the subject line and we will try and get it on as soon as we can on Terry’s talking.